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Does yield matter for milk based coffee?
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Ronins's answer gets the banana, (but just to complicate these answers even more), lever machine users control pressure and flow by "feel" we develop a muscle memory and know how the extraction needs to feel through its development.
If it feels wrong, say different or ageing coffee or a poor tamp you automatically try and compensate in real time but you can't just count the seconds, (try it against a clock in the mornings) it's subject to how you feel and not accurate enough, (hence the clock).
You're always looking at the flow and everything else barri says through the bottomless portafilter.
You're also micro adjusting every extraction based on what you learned from the last shot.
Repeatability should just be a window in which you work to try and improve the next shot, (and that target varies according to your wants on that morning).
Hope your still reading this combat1, (you chose your username well).
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Time is irrelevant. Time is a proxy for flow, you can't measure flow so you're using time to say how much water was pushed through in a set period. Once you measure flow you can see the actual variable that is causing your shot to slow down/speed up.
Back to the OP's question - extraction yield is actually v important as it tells you how much coffee material you extracted.
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Ok, all components of the recipe are important. But they are all variables.
Monitoring all parts and understanding what changes effect which part of the flavours / body etc will let you develop an espresso recipe to suit your personal preference.
Then you have a recipe that is repeatable and consistent.
Yeild is one of these components, as is temp, basket, pressure, dose, distribution, tamp, time & water. Even beans & roast development.
And in a milky beverage so it the brand & type of milk, season, steam (wet or dry) texture and temperature
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We'll agree to disagree on that. I rarely look at a clock but I do look closely at the flow, the evenness and colour of the extraction and the yield from a bottomless basket. That tells me all I need to know. Obviously there is a connection between flow and time but my point is I don't use time as a major variable to watch while pulling shots. The old golden rule used to be 30mls in 30 seconds and both of those variables have taken far less importance in recent yearsLast edited by barri; 7 February 2022, 07:38 PM.
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Time is never irrelevant, but the amount of time required for your particular preferred balance of extraction will alter every time you change something,
(preinfusion / temperature / pressure / grind etc).
Keep it simple, develop your taste preferences and let that rule everything you do.
I have a clock with a second hand on the wall by the coffee machine, that's all the technology I need.
It get's quite complicated anyway, (when cooking we don't want exactly the same taste in our streak every time, plain boring).
When we alter one taste note it allows another one to shine, constant experimentation and new balances, thats the journey.
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I'll add a definite "yes" to Ronin's comments and I'm a milk drinker as well. In the "Decent Espresso" community which has some of the world's most coffee experts including Scott Rao and Mr Wies who invented WDT, they nearly all dial in brew ratio, in fact, they have made some after market products that help attach the scales to the drip tray. They even have profiles that allow you to stop at a certain weight automatically. I have found dialing in by brew ratio the easiest method of producing a good cup. Starting with 1:2 and adjusting by taste after that but this also depends on the type of grinder . Some Lagom P100 users, for example find that 1:3 works better depending on roast type compared to say the Niche Zero. Time is often irrelevant especially when you have long preinfusions and long pressure drops as you do on lever machines and certain profiles on a DE machine. Some of these shots can go for 45 seconds
If you're feeling lazy then at least dial in by yield and then subsequent shots can follow the same procedures to get you close enough.
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"Yield is a key flavour profiler", (sorry I inanvertantly might just have invented another acronym to make coffee even more complicated).
As you force water through the grinds the taste of that coffee extraction greatly changes with time until it becomes pure evil. (as in over extracted).
So you have a cup of different "tastes," aim to get the balance right for you, (it's going to be different for every coffee variety).
Eventually you will be able to tell exactly what beans you're using - even in milk based drinks.
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The relationship between dose, yield, and time taken produces the extraction in the cup. Change one of them and it will change what's in the cup.
For your case, I would suggest getting used to what the right yield looks like while weighing it, then ditch the scales and do it by eye. For milk drinks it'll probably be close enough.
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You are the one drinking the coffee so put as much effort into it as you need to get a result you are happy with I reckon.
Milk drinks will hide most minor defects and if you add sugar then it will also help to camouflage defects.
Good beans, ground on demand, correctish dose, pulled in a reasonable time.
That is what 99% of cafes make their living on.
Your Ristrettos might be eye watering but you will be happy with your lattes.
Until you aren’t.
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Short answer is yes.
Not enough coffee & your drink will be too milky
too much coffee & it may be too strong
the long answer is not is not something I wish to type atm, perhaps tomorrow.
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Does yield matter for milk based coffee?
I don't want this to sound like a stupid question as I'm not an expert. I've been reading more about dialling in espresso and been thinking about dose, yield and time. Does anyone have an opinion in terms of how important each parameter is and then whether the importance changes once you add milk or more water (long black)?
My instinct says that dose and time are more important with milk based drinks compared to yield but I'd like to hear from the experts.
The below talks about all three parameters. This article only talks about espresso "concentration" rather than which is more important for 60ml of liquid than the 170-230ml in a milk based coffee.
https://perfectdailygrind.com/2020/0...g-in-espresso/
Why do I ask? Yield depends on sticking a scale under your cup while extracting each time where as measuring the correct dose can be done in batch and the time can largely be dialled in once per new bag of beans. So it's about being lazy/not wanting to go to the nth degree if it's not going to make a world of difference.

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