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I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.....

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  • #16
    Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

    Hmm...I feel like Ive been down this road before...

    Yes, I feel your frustration, Greg...Silvia does at best, require a deft hand. Sure, Ive had mine for a few years now and shes second hand too...bought well loved from a fellow CSr...

    I put it through hell and back one day when our commerical two group machine decided to blow its heater element. Mostly pouring shots for coffees and doing the milk in a microwave but also occasionally steaming when able. She stood up to that test well...of course, all I can say to this is that my experience as a professional helped me to nurse the machine through the day.

    Yet, I too still get the odd sour shot from it. Mainly because I havent been consistent with it or done the usual process.

    Look, it can be easier to get it right on a big HX machine. In my job, when I get to work, its been on since about 3am when the bakers get to work and switch the machine on for their own coffee. So, its well and truly warmed up. But it also requires of me to go through the correct process to get it right. Otherwise, the result is a bad shot of coffee.

    Its like we all know that all we really need is a mobile phone that takes phone calls...but really we end up with phones that can send text messages, surf the web, take photos and play music. Kind of the same thing here, IMO.

    Yes...you could take the wow factor out and buy an auto machine. Theyll produce consistent milk based coffees for you but not those coffees that make you go..."Wow! Gotta do that again!"

    If your wife is really that frustrated with it...go and get a bigger machine...but like others have counselled you here, get some sort of training. Go and watch your fave barista behind their machine and see what they do to get consistently good coffee. Even if you just go to another CSr who is happy to lend a helping hand...in person...that can do you the world of good too. Sometimes, we are visual learners and even after reading everything you can here...you might still need to see it done in real life. Then the penny might drop for you!

    I dont know anything about Genovese coffee...but Id recommend grabbing 500 grams of Espresso Wow from Andy here and giving it a go to...just to make sure that it is your process and not your coffee...

    Good luck...

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    • #17
      Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

      I do a fair amount of home barista classes with Silvia owners in my area. Reading the forums can get very confusing as you are reading the tips and habits of very fussy coffee makers. This is not a bad thing, but you should be able to get a very good coffee very easily with a little 1 on 1 direction. You do not need to get everything 100% everytime. The trick is knowing which steps will progress your results more than others. If you were to research all the tips and tricks here on the forums without knowing the basics you can land up going nowhere. The basics are easy and get you 80% of the way to a perfect cup. The fine details may only progress your coffee 1-5%, but if you are concentrating on them from the start you will get lost with the basics.

      As for buying a built into the wall machine, just a tip that a great result on that machine may be no better than an average result on your current setup.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

        Before you sell definitely have a go at getting some training from someone who can teach you using your own machine and grinder.

        I did the same after I got the Silvia and it does help. If, after the training you find that Silvia still doesnt suit at least didnt do anything rash. The home training will help you with any machine you end up getting.

        Ive had Silvia for three years now, and I still occasionally get crappy shots. Silvia is finicky, no doubt about that. But having someone show you how it can be done will help a lot.

        Cheers,

        Matt

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        • #19
          Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

          Hi Greg,

          I also had a few problems when I got the Silvia/Rocky combo a few months back. You havent mentioned what problems youre having though.... are the shots running too fast? Are the shots sour or bitter?

          First, I thought the problem was with the Rocky. Then I thought it may have to do with the Silvia brew pressure. In the end, I got a bottomless portafilter and I found that 95% my shots were channeling badly. I would highly recommend getting one of these portafilters to diagnose any problems - if your problems were the same as mine, they are to do with your dosing and distribution techniques.


          Cheers,
          Tim

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

            Hi Tim,

            I actually had another thread running regarding my problems and tired quite a few things. The main problem seems to be the shots are running WAY too fast. At times it is nothing more than yellow water coming through, even with a grind at 3 or 4 and very firm tamping.

            What you said really hit home to me, I too was curious if the unit was generating too much pressure as others have stated success with a grind at 12 or higher using the Rocky, 12 would give me nothing but coloured water! Im intrigued now, what is a botomless portafilter, and how did you resolve your problem? I really dont want to spend any more money at the moment until I decide exactly what Im going to do!

            Thanks for the post,

            Greg.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

              Hi Greg,

              That was exactly the same problem I had. I did everything I could think of including testing & lowering the brew pressure, weighing the grind in the PF to try different amounts, different grind settings and even going so far as to try new burrs in the
              Rocky as I thought the old ones may have been faulty. None of that helped and I reached the 30mls in around 10 seconds with the brew coming out very pale and yellow, even at just one above the true zero point on the Rocky which is the finest you can grind.

              A bottomless PF doesnt have the spouts on the bottom... you can see what they look like and even order them from http://coffeeparts.com.au/accessories/nakedpf.html. Using one, you can tell if there is anything wrong with your shot - and it sounds like you had the same problems. When your shot comes out well, youll notice immediately as well, and its helped me improve my consistency a lot.

              I fixed my problem by working on my tamping, dosing and distribution. How exactly are you dosing the grind into your PF and setting it up before locking it into the group? Do you have a proper tamper or are you using the plastic tamper that comes with the machine?

              By the way, I noticed that youre selling your machine. You may want to hold off on this and try to get your techniques perfected - which can take some time. It took some time before my shots became a lot more consistent.


              Cheers,
              Tim

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                Originally posted by gjws link=1218326035/0#19 date=1218368508
                Hi Tim,

                I actually had another thread running regarding my problems and tired quite a few things. The main problem seems to be the shots are running WAY too fast. At times it is nothing more than yellow water coming through, even with a grind at 3 or 4 and very firm tamping.

                ...

                Greg.

                Sounds like youre experiencing a severe case of channelling..whereby channels are forming through the grounds (via the path of least resistance), and proper emulsification of coffee oils is not occuring as the water is simply gushing through.


                Please describe your dose and tamping ritual.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                  Hi again,

                  Well it sure sounds like Im having the same problems you had Tim! This is the way I setup the shot.

                  1. Grind the appropriate amount of coffee, usually on say 3 or 5.
                  2. Place the double basket in to the PF, then fill the basket to a small mound.
                  3. Level off the mound using the back edge of a knife to fill the basket level.
                  4. Using a Pullman tamper I tamp as best I can.
                  5. Insert the PF in Silvia, tightening until its quite tight.
                  6. Let it rip!

                  I dont give the machine much of a chance to preheat at all and Im using the original baskets. Thats as technical as I get and Ive not yet had a shot Im really happy with.  I wont even mention using the single basket, I dont even think that is possible, if I thought my doubles were bad, my singles are atrocious!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                    Hi Greg,

                    Are you using freshly roasted beans? Stale beans bought from the supermarket or other places can cause a faster pour as well.

                    Here are a few other things that you could try as well (if you havent already):
                    - letting the Silvia warm up for at least an hour before using it.
                    - try tapping the PF whilst filling it with grinds. This compacts it a little more.
                    - try different tamp levels - they say around 15kg or so, but I find that anything harder than a very light tamp causes me problems for some reason.
                    - try other distribution techniques such as the WDT if you get grind clumping and maybe the NSEW, Chicago Chop, Stcokfleth, etc. Ive tried them and what I am consistent now is the Stockfleth with levelling with my own dosing tool (which is just a piece of plastic with a curve cut into it).
                    - getting hold of other baskets.... when I had the Silvia I was using the LM single 95% of the time and I found it did help a little.

                    You can probably do searches on each of these techniques with coffee on google - there are even videos available.

                    A new and better machine may not help in the long run if thats what youre thinking as well. I know - as that was what I thought with the purchase of an Expobar HX machine and a Macap grinder. Guess what though.... still channeling even with the new machines so I knew in the end it had to be me... after lots of $$$ spent! Hope you dont have to go through the same journey!


                    Cheers,
                    Tim

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                      Im skipping to the end here.

                      I have a Silvia as well and have a few posts in here that mirror the frustration you voice. However, now Im a PROUD Silvia owner. Like a few here, Im no maestro, but I can pull good shots on it fairly consistently now. My biggest problem was the grind. If the grind is wrong you end up grounds stuck to the head and crumbling in the portafilter, not to mention a lousy shot. Also I found that during my learning curve, my beans were sub-par at best.

                      Dont quit my friend! Having someone come to your house will also verify that your machine is operating correctly. Though Im not sure where the break down could be (temperature, pressure), itll be a relief to have someone say the machine is sound.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                        Ive found this How To page useful (sorry mods if this link is not ok):
                        http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToEspresso.html

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                          Originally posted by Ali link=1218326035/20#25 date=1218416139
                          Ive found this How To page useful (sorry mods if this link is not ok):
                          http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToEspresso.html
                          Absolutely OK Ali....

                          Randy is not only a respected member of CS 8-) but his website is an oft used resource of knowledge for newbies and experienced home baristas alike. I reckon he must have helped thousands upon thousands of Silvia owners over the years....

                          Mal.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                            Originally posted by gjws link=1218326035/20#22 date=1218375812
                            Hi again,

                            Well it sure sounds like Im having the same problems you had Tim! This is the way I setup the shot.

                            1. Grind the appropriate amount of coffee, usually on say 3 or 5.
                            2. Place the double basket in to the PF, then fill the basket to a small mound.
                            3. Level off the mound using the back edge of a knife to fill the basket level.
                            4. Using a Pullman tamper I tamp as best I can.
                            5. Insert the PF in Silvia, tightening until its quite tight.
                            6. Let it rip!

                            I dont give the machine much of a chance to preheat at all and Im using the original baskets. Thats as technical as I get and Ive not yet had a shot Im really happy with.  I wont even mention using the single basket, I dont even think that is possible, if I thought my doubles were bad, my singles are atrocious!
                            Where abouts are you located Greg? Theres a good chance that there may be another CSer living not too far away from you or perhaps one of our Site Sponsors. Im sure that given the right approach, one of our fellow members would be more than happy to help you (and your lovely lady) out and at least get you to the stage where you can pull good quality shots consistently.

                            It really sounds to me as though as though you are experiencing major dosing/distribution issues and a demonstration from someone more experienced will be worth quids to getting things sorted out. As also mentioned, you NEED to let Silvia warm up properly with the PF engaged lightly into the Group to ensure that this warms up properly too. Shots will be sour and very unpleasant otherwise.

                            The grind setting you mention seems very fine to me, even given the fact that the numbers are there mostly for relative reference, not absolute. Most Silvia style machines Ive ever had a play with when I owned a Rocky, were dialled-in between 8-12 from real zero for both double and single baskets. As has already been mentioned, it is absolutely essential that you use high quality, freshly roasted whole beans from a reputable specialist roaster.... It makes a hell of a difference, to put it plainly.

                            Stick with it Greg... Youll wonder what all the fuss was about once you get things working properly. All the best mate,

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                              Originally posted by gjws link=1218326035/0#4 date=1218327818
                              Hi guys,

                              Shes sick of playing with the grind, varying the tamp, preheat this, change that etc, is it even possible to get to a fairly simple, repeatable process? .

                              .
                              Hi Greg,

                              It is perfectly possible to get brilliant and repeatable shots with a Silvia.
                              I totally agree with all the above CSer comments, training especially is a VG idea.

                              Just want to add a couple of things:

                              1. As a beginner, to make great coffee on ANY great machine [Silvia included] takes an investment of your time. It takes dedication, practise and more practise.
                              Without this, you or your partner will not get anywhere.
                              Once done, it becomes easy and second nature.
                              But, you have to want to apply yourself to it.

                              2. Going by your above quote, If you wife does not want to adjust grind/tamp/preheat etc then any semiautomatic espresso machine will present the same problem.

                              If this is the case, your only option then would be a fully automatic machine, but aside from the more expensive Juras, these make only poor coffee at best and are very unreliable.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: I give up, Rancilio Silvia and Rocky for sale.

                                Originally posted by gjws link=1218326035/20#22 date=1218375812
                                Hi again,

                                Well it sure sounds like Im having the same problems you had Tim! This is the way I setup the shot.

                                1. Grind the appropriate amount of coffee, usually on say 3 or 5.
                                2. Place the double basket in to the PF, then fill the basket to a small mound.
                                3. Level off the mound using the back edge of a knife to fill the basket level.
                                4. Using a Pullman tamper I tamp as best I can.
                                5. Insert the PF in Silvia, tightening until its quite tight.
                                6. Let it rip!

                                I dont give the machine much of a chance to preheat at all and Im using the original baskets. Thats as technical as I get and Ive not yet had a shot Im really happy with. I wont even mention using the single basket, I dont even think that is possible, if I thought my doubles were bad, my singles are atrocious!
                                Hi gjws,

                                Firstly, as others mentioned,
                                Please get some training for you and your wife. Will make huge difference.
                                Second:
                                It is imperative that you allow the machine time to heat up and stabilise, whatever it is, even the cheap thermoblocks benefit from a decent warmup.
                                You can speed the process up a bit by running water through after it has had 10 minutes or so, but minimum of 30 minutes, or closer to 60 mins really helps. (Unexpected visitors of course throw this time delay difficulty at you but you can usually get by with not serving the coffee in the first 10 minutes)
                                Third:
                                Forget about the single basket.
                                Standard Double basket can produce excellent shots on Silvia, I did it during the course I did, although I now use a larger one with a custom fit Pullman tamper.
                                Fourth:
                                You sound like you are not dosing enough into the pf, and you are getting some channelling, things that you will learn about in any decent course. (FWIW I did mine with Chris from Talk Coffee and it was very good.)

                                Finally, making good coffee with any semi auto machine requires some skills, which can easily be learned if one wants to, I havent found Silvia to be as finicky as some make her out to be.
                                I have had a number of comments recently along the lines of "....why do I go out and pay good money for crappy coffee, when you can make it so nice...."
                                You and your wife can do this too, if you will invest the time.
                                Bullitt

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