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  • So different!

    Hi all, i have 2 methods of making coffee, one is with a u beaut ecm and the other a mocha pot. Both get 18 grams of coffee at the same grind. The mocha pot produces a much stronger pour which i find very odd given the ecm is no slouch. Pour time is 17 seconds where it begins to become blonde. Your thoughts?

  • #2
    What is a u beaut ecm? If that's an espresso machine with a non-pressurised basket you need to grind much finer than a Moka pot to start with.

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    • #3
      Just very different styles of coffee. If "stronger" is what you are after then Turkish would give you even more.

      A paler liquid after 17 seconds is quite normal. If you want a stronger flavor (ristretto style) then try stopping the pour or removing the cup at that point and see what you think.

      Question: you have 18g in for each, but what is the weight out for each? Helpful observations will be more likely once that information is available.

      In the meantime a point of difference between the two is the ability of the ECM to produce more consistent shots.

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      • #4
        The grind is suited to the ecm, rest assured, after 15 years of coffee roasting i have some idea on stuff…so, the pour from the ecm @ 17 seconds gives what i call a double shot. The macca pot at 18 grams gives what i call 2 double shots or 4 singles, all way stronger than the double shot of the ecm. I am beginning to think the mocca pot is running a little warmer than the ecm…

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        • Blues1143
          Blues1143 commented
          Editing a comment
          Appreciating that you might have different tastes, I don't understand your question then if you don't want to grind finer and extend the extraction time if you are wanting a "stronger" double shot compared to your moka pot (by double shot I presume you mean double your input weight as output).

        • wherevubean
          wherevubean commented
          Editing a comment
          sounds like you might have unravelled your own question

      • #5
        Stovetop espresso makers brew at 1.5 bar, so what you have is a) close to boiling water b) lower pressure c) much greater volume of water interacting with the ground coffee. This will result in a much higher total extraction of coffee solubles (you could test this with a Refractometer).

        The ECM shot will have a higher TDS (total dissolved solids per gram/ml of water). But overall the TDS of all the water from the stovetop is going to get more coffee solubles from the ground coffee.

        Similarly extractions from 17 grams of a V60 will prob be around the same total coffee solubles as a 20 gram double shot. Much lower concentration though through say 250ml of water.

        Horses for courses though! I enjoy espresso with milk at around 9bar and pourover daily at work. But stovetop really only gets the best out if dark roasted beans and is not my favourite coffee method.
        Last edited by roosterben; 10 October 2022, 04:00 PM. Reason: Typos

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        • #6
          Originally posted by lumenary View Post
          The grind is suited to the ecm, rest assured, after 15 years of coffee roasting i have some idea on stuff…so, the pour from the ecm @ 17 seconds gives what i call a double shot. The macca pot at 18 grams gives what i call 2 double shots or 4 singles, all way stronger than the double shot of the ecm. I am beginning to think the mocca pot is running a little warmer than the ecm…
          By 'stronger' I'm guessing you are talking about strength of flavour - is that right? The two objective measurements of strength are concentration/dilution and extraction yield. Your mocha pot definitely has a lower concentration if it's producing a greater volume of liquid, but it's possible it has a higher extraction yield which may contribute to the overall sensation of a 'stronger' cup. Are you happy with the results from the ECM or do you prefer the mocha pot? They are quite different styles and the only way to brew something with the ECM that may ultimately be similar to the mocha pot would be to try one of the high extraction yield espresso methods that have been talked about recently. Scott Rao was producing some using a variety of techniques, a super fine grind, long pre-infusions and paper filters. The turbo shot is another that is known to produce high extraction yield although I'd argue that the Rao blooming espresso is closer to the overall experience of a mocha pot brew than a turbo shot. The other factor here obviously is just personal preference, and that's not something that anyone else can account for.

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