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  • Extraction issues

    Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong forum. New here..

    Hoping someone can help with the following and if so thanks in advance.

    Running a new R58 Cinquantotto with Eureka Mignon grinder and began brewing with Joes (New York) espresso beans (Darkish roast) still within the use by date.

    After a week of trials I’m down to zero grind (finest setting) on the Eureka with 17gm (ground coffee) in the double basket and 9gm single basket.

    Temperature at the Rocket factory setting of 92 degrees.

    My extraction times are very fast with extraction occurring within 2-3 seconds and pulling very fast shots. After 20 seconds or so I’m well over 80ml of liquid.

    I’m tamping with plenty of force…

    Can anyone shed some light on this. The baskets have the recommended coffee amount with finest grind setting available and I’m still pulling fast shots with little crema and quality?

    The beans are supposed to be excellent quality!

    Any help would be very much appreciated.

    Jack…


  • #2
    Jack it sounds like you are not grinding fine enough. Doesn't the Eureka Mignon go lower than zero? It is easy to find the real zero, empty it of beans and then turn it on, going lower till you hear the burrs just touching. This is your real zero, I would expect it to be different than what is marked on the grinder. Then start somewhat up from there.

    PS Master the double before worrying about the single basket, most find single baskets much harder

    Comment


    • #3
      Reply written before seeing '338' reply above....Obv Agree with checking true zero!

      Originally posted by Jack744 View Post
      Hoping someone can help with the following and if so thanks in advance.
      Running a new R58 Cinquantotto with Eureka Mignon grinder and began brewing with Joes (New York) espresso beans (Darkish roast) still within the use by date.
      After a week of trials I’m down to zero grind (finest setting) on the Eureka with 17gm (ground coffee) in the double basket and 9gm single basket.
      Temperature at the Rocket factory setting of 92 degrees.
      My extraction times are very fast with extraction occurring within 2-3 seconds and pulling very fast shots. After 20 seconds or so I’m well over 80ml of liquid.
      I’m tamping with plenty of force…
      Can anyone shed some light on this. The baskets have the recommended coffee amount with finest grind setting available and I’m still pulling fast shots with little crema and quality?
      The beans are supposed to be excellent quality!
      Any help would be very much appreciated.
      Jack…
      Welcome to the forum Jack and hope you get as much out of it as many have here.

      80ml (g) in 20sec...obv..... = 4g /sec flow rate.
      Most Rockets I am aware of flow OEM at around 6-8g a sec unrestricted through the grouphead.i.e. no g/handle attached.
      To me this is Meaning your coffee puck currently is offering nil to next to no resistance.

      The first task of the barista is to assess what they have at they're disposal, beans /roast / freshness / dose etc.
      And create optimal resistance to flow so as the coffee puck can be saturated to 'the right' amount and therefore the best / required / flavours only.... are extracted. And the right finished qty so as to provide a tasty finished beverage.

      Where are you based Jack ? Australia? U.S. ? ....New York?

      I cant comment on the grinder / adjustment, as I have never used a Mignon. Search it here as many have and are currently...
      B u t have you checked / reset the True Zero position?

      How old are the beans ?

      I can only recommend first off - you try another roaster / blend.
      Clear previous beans out of the grind chamber delivery throat. Start again.
      Also Look up 5cent test, how to assess the maximum dose for any given basket size.


      PS....Put the single basket aside Till you dial in the double basket.Once you have a consistent shot routine going.....
      You can come back to the Single basket which normally in my experience will require a slightly courser grind to suit the different flow rate.

      PSS take no notice of some here that will try to get you to bin that single basket, once and for all !
      GL

      Comment


      • #4
        With the beans labeled with a "Use by date" rather than a "Roasted on date" and the company not offering any guarantee on their beans my guess would be stale beans.


        Java "Find another roaster" phile
        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          First question, like EA, is what is the roast date of the beans?

          If they are old and dried out then they will always pull fast. A "use by" date can be up to 24 months post roast, so you really, really need the roast date. Assuming there is no roast date (there rarely is if there is a "use by" date), what is the "use by" date that is on the bag and when did you buy them?

          Personally, any time I see no roast date and only a "use by" or "best by" date, I walk away.

          Comment


          • #6
            I concur to the above, find your true zero with your grinder to confirm or eliminate…but my guess is as per Javaphile above….. a roasted date gives you truth but a use by date is just someone’s opinion….

            Comment


            • #7
              A very warm thanks to those that have shed some light on my post. Much appreciated

              Will try recommendations and advice as stated.

              And thanks also for the welcome….

              Comment


              • #8
                As an aside you’ve solved my issue. Rookie mistake believing the grinder wheel could only be turned once however I’ve just realised after reading your replies, the wheel can be turned continuously as the burrs close. I wasn’t using the true zero position and interestingly it wasn’t in the instructions or I overlooked it. Little embarrassing on my part…

                Will also take the advice regarding bean freshness and roast date vs. expiry on board….

                Great gen once again and appreciate you writing…

                Jack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jack your welcome and you'll def find this forum is a welcoming and inclusive place for true n genuine coffee enthusiasts!

                  And once you get settled in a few months do yourself a favour and read up on filtration.
                  That Cinquantotto deserves to be looked after ....a cracking good machine that it is.

                  And again I dont have that grinder....but I believe in using a non permanent marker ( like a whiteout pen) to keep some sort of
                  'eye' on my grind settings at any given time including where true zero is.

                  Comment


                  • tompoland
                    tompoland commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Great idea (whiteout pen), I'll use that on the Moca which annoyingly has no numbers on the dial. I had been using stickers cut into an arrow shape but with ten thumbs it takes forever. danke!

                • #10
                  Espresso, very nice to hear and will certainly be sticking around after so many took the time to provide clear and comprehensive insight to the problem. Will follow your advice regarding filtration.

                  Also, all understood with regards to the single basket and will ‘shelve’ it till I have some clue as getting this double basket in play. Getting there however. In answer to your question, I live in Hong Kong but generally buy beans in the US believing the quality and range should be better there.

                  In response to yourself, Mono,Tom and Java I’m trying Broadhseet beans with a roast date stamped and Joe’s which simply has a date which I may or may not have correctly assumed was expiry, but it makes sense that’s the roast date…

                  You guys have just made life a whole lot easier. My wife has been rolling her eyes that I couldn’t pull a coffee from this machine…

                  I owe you….

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Jack744 View Post
                    Joe’s which simply has a date which I may or may not have correctly assumed was expiry, but it makes sense that’s the roast date…
                    If it's a date in the future, as it would have to be for your original statement ("Running a new R58 Cinquantotto with Eureka Mignon grinder and began brewing with Joes (New York) espresso beans (Darkish roast) still within the use by date.") to be true, it can't be a 'Roasted on date'.


                    Java "Magical beans?" phile
                    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Methinks you're pushing a barrow uphill. What stood out for me was the belief that good coffee wasn't available in Hong Kong.
                      I have never been there but it's where you should be looking.
                      Your extraction woes have been addressed by others and I think the pertinent points are: roast date- you should be
                      using coffee that is 1-3 weeks after roasting.
                      Roast development - you will be chasing a dark and old roast with your grinder and never catching up, it's an impossible task.
                      Have a look at this list and do some local shopping.
                      https://thehoneycombers.com/hong-kon...ers-hong-kong/

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        John of "Decent Espresso Machines" will know where to grab excellent freshly roasted coffee...
                        https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...796#post931796

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • EspressoAdventurer
                          EspressoAdventurer commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Spot on Mal ...I was thinking the same thing.
                          And John's a coffee enthusiast & a good contributor to the forum.

                      • #14
                        Excellent advice on beans and appreciate the links to follow up with. Will also be in touch with John of DEM as advised.

                        I guess I was assuming NY would have more variety and quality, beans wise, but have since found some local roasters that certainly look the goods after referring to the posted links and doing some internet searching..

                        Thanks once again…







                        Comment


                        • chokkidog
                          chokkidog commented
                          Editing a comment
                          The US is the last place on earth that I'd look for good coffee. It's there, I know, I've had one good one in the states but there are approx 4067 coffee roasting businesses and with a fairly prevalent style of coffee in the US, it's going to be hard to find one that you like, (if it's not on the darker side). Think global, shop local! Good luck with your search, I'm sure you'll be successful and don't forget to do a follow up post when you've had some good results.
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