Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What's Special About Creama

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What's Special About Creama

    I'm trying to get my head around several parts of coffee making, and 1 of them is the importance or not of creama. Myself, I'm not particularly impressed with having creama on the top of my coffee , I just find the taste to be quite bitter, which I don't like.
    So can you educate me about creama ?
    I'm currently using a 3 cup bialletti, 6 cup bialletti and a 3(small) cup plunger.

  • #2
    I'm far far far from an expert but... To me crema on an espresso shot is a sign of a good extraction but that doesn't mean you have to actually drink it. Something I read a while ago indicated that James Hoffmann has been removing the crema for years and that more baristas are now doing the same.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yep, crema tastes bitter. Stir it in if it bothers you. The amount and longevity of the crema on an espresso, however, can be indicative of problems with the freshness of beans, grind quality and/or extraction pressure (as well as its visual effects).

      Comment


      • #4
        Crema is an indicator of a well pulled shot, I find it very palatable and consume it with relish, I find removal an idiosyncrasy, only an opinion, your brew, do with it as you will.?

        Comment


        • #5
          Crema is not a spelling mistake.
          Swirling the crema into the shot will eliminate a lot of the bitterness, which comes from the
          high CO2 content being injected into the emulsified oils.
          It stands to reason that the darker the roast the more ashy, burnt and bitter the crema will be.
          Crema often contains some undissolved solids as well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Crema is simply CO2 created during roasting being released as the pressure drops when passing through the group head, exactly like bubbles are released when you open a coke can.
            All things being equal, the fresher the roast, the less time CO2 has had to dissipate and therefore more creme. Robusta produced more creme which is why many companies include a bit in their blend, because Joe Average thinks creme is good. It isn't. It tastes bitter. Mix it in or spoon it off.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
              the bitterness, which comes from the high CO2 content being injected into the emulsified oils.
              Do you have any reference for this? If true it is surprising.

              In beer where a lot of research has been done on the influence of CO2 content on bitterness the effect is fairly small and that's at CO2 levels that are very much greater than those in coffee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                Do you have any reference for this? If true it is surprising.
                .
                CO2 is a by product of the roasting process.
                CO2 plus water forms carbonic acid which is sour.
                But crema has got a lot more to it than just CO2 and water hence the bitterness.
                Google it.

                Comment


                • Lyrebird
                  Lyrebird commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Originally posted by Superman View Post
                  CO2 is a by product of the roasting process.
                  CO2 plus water forms carbonic acid which is sour.
                  Bitterness is not sourness. Different receptors.

                  The two do affect each other in that low pH increases the perception of bitterness but since the pKa of carbonic acid is close to the pH of coffee and the solubility of CO2 at coffee temperatures is very low, this effect will be very small.

                  Originally posted by Superman View Post
                  But crema has got a lot more to it than just CO2 and water hence the bitterness.
                  Google it.
                  Thanks for restating my point for me.
                  Last edited by Lyrebird; 23 November 2022, 08:49 PM.

              • #9
                Lyrebird​ For someone with an enquiring mind and a science leaning I'm a bit surprised you didn't check it out yourself, I thought it was common
                knowledge amongst coffee roasters, aficionados and dyed in the wool snobs. Certainly, it's something I've been asked quite a bit by my customers
                over the years. Perhaps the thing you are missing is the 9bar or so of pressure that's involved with the brewing process that produces the most crema, i.e. espresso?
                Here's some to start with: the Hoffman page is just a resource list for you to peruse. My apologies for the delayed reply, I've been away.

                https://www.jameshoffmann.co.uk/weir...rema-resources
                https://perfectdailygrind.com/2020/0...learn-from-it/
                http://www.imreblank.ch/Coffee%20Cha...ee%20Crema.pdf

                Comment


                • Lyrebird
                  Lyrebird commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I've read the papers and found no reference to CO2 causing bitterness. I'm relying on memory for the Wang PhD which I've read several times before.

                • chokkidog
                  chokkidog commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ummm. I didn't say that CO2 was bitter in itself. The bitterness is in the undissolved solids, TDS, emulsified oils etc. Crema is formed when the C02 is released from the ground coffee under extraction pressure into myriad tiny bubbles and is coated/mixed with the above. It would appear that there is a concentration of bitter compounds in the crema? Sorry if my syntax was not clear.

                • Lyrebird
                  Lyrebird commented
                  Editing a comment
                  OK, so I misinterpreted what you meant. We're all good.

              • #10
                A bit controversial here but
                Crema is a sign of a traditionally extracted shot.
                Not good or bad.
                I have had many espressos with the commonly perceived good Crema that were terrible and great shot many would sink based on sight

                Comment


                • #11
                  I find crema a good indicator of bean freshness.

                  Freshly roasted beans = plenty of crema.

                  Old/stale beans = equal thin watery dark colour shot with little or no crema.☺

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Dark roasted Robusta = plenty of crema
                    Filter style espresso shot = thin watery dark colour shot with no crema

                    Crema is a personal preference

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Tell us more about a "Filter style espresso shot"?

                      Comment


                      • Ronin
                        Ronin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        google it, its not new
                        Think Matt Perger did it in a barista comp about 10 years ago and even poured it through a filter paper to remove any crema

                    • #14
                      I did, right before my last post, pretty obscure.

                      Did find a reference to Cafe allonge​, Café allongé is the French for Italian cafe lungo, or in English, long espresso Which happens to be my coffee of choice.

                      Learning all the time.?

                      Comment


                      • Budgiesmuggler
                        Budgiesmuggler commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Allonge is kinda different - and maybe this is what you do because so many names for drinks in coffee.

                        Allonge is a shot pulled at 9 bar, with fast flow of around 4ml per second, and shot weight around 1:5. It’s John from decent’s daily driver so you’ll see lots of refs to it in his videos.

                      • Ronin
                        Ronin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2021/9...t-coffee-shots
                        Worth a read for you Yelta. Even if you don't try it or like it.
                        You don't need a Decent machine for it either. any decent machine will do. (see what I did there lol)

                    • #15
                      Thanks for the link Ronin, I'm a rusted on espresso man, having said that, I do drink filter coffee when I stay in Adelaide, I use a plunger combined with Aldi beans, about the highest praise I can give it is it's recognisable as coffee, and thats not saying much, always look forwart to getting home to my Bezzera and what I consider a decent brew (there's that word again)

                      Yes I have gone down the path of taking my own roasted beans with me, to be honest not a vast improvement over the Aldi product, technique? perhaps.

                      Comment


                      • Ronin
                        Ronin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Coffee is a personal drink.
                        I tried Aldi beans & threw them away. Can’t stand the flavour
                        But if whoever is drinking it enjoys it, it’s not wrong.

                      • amberale
                        amberale commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Water old chap.
                        Adelaide is/has always been notorious for the quality of its water.
                        I don't know why, we Vics, NSWelshmen and Queenslanders have been adding nutrients to it to help them along for years.
                    Working...
                    X