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  • #16
    Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

    TBC; others are welcome to pick up where I left off and to criticise and tear apart
    luca,
    awaiting the next installment
    makes interesting reading

    graham

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

      After comments in another thread about the quality of advice offered at times I figured it was time we created a list of "Coffee Snobs Home (Barista) Truths" which is the sort of standard FAQs that you often see on other forums advising new people to read before posting the usual questions we get. Perhaps these could be placed in a sticky and Andy puts a link to these in his autogreeting message.

      OK I also know that these are also often not read so someone will ask that question anyway but I thought it might also be useful to hone some of the advice offered so at least its consistent. Even so, it might assist the lurkers who are afraid to ask. I must say that CS is one of the friendliest forums I have ever participated in. Fire extinguishers rarely get a work out - very civilized. Anyway, here goes, feel free to add or correct
      Has anybody read the purpose of all this in post #1 “as in the quote above?”The purpose of all this is a "QUICK NEW CS MEMBER GUIDE" with CS links that can be added to a sticky post and also to Andy’s welcome to CS message

      Lucas contribution is fine but in this context it will be better for that amount of detailed information to have a separate section e.g. “Advanced and Detailed Guide to Coffee”
      It will be better to have a link to this or any other relevant post
      Remember the KISS principle

      I sent a PM to flynn to include the basic home roasting section
      as you can see it is 3.5 lines long


      KK

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

        Hi KK,

        easy thing to do will be to place a hyperlink with "further reading" on it to the relevent sections of Lucas or whoevers expanded sections. I still like the idea of a simple intro section too.

        Now back to finish digesting Lucas novel

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

          Thanks KK. That was my original intention. It wasnt meant to be full-on all encompassing. I made that decision when I started writing the first one and realised that it could go on for some time; had to set a limit.

          Another purpose of this thread is to iron out the "home truths" side of things such as what Luca & Randy have raised.

          Perhaps there is room for two CS Home Barista Truths - one for the newcomer/first-timer and one for the "OK, I think Ive got it - what next?" or "tell me more about blah" types of questions. Especially the ones that come up time again.

          Perhaps there is a book in it that we can sell online for Faircrack funds?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

            Hey Flynn

            Just wondering if we have any progress on this topic

            KK


            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

              no, doesnt look like we are going to get any further contributions. I will put together sonmething on what weve got so far. Sounds like we need another one around the old dose/distribute/tamp that seems to cause so much problem with the simple solution "its what is in the cup that matters" but pointers to general techniques and referral to sponsors for training.

              I wouldnt mind hearing from Andy or Mods that they are OK with this idea before spending any more time on it

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                Keep it rolling, its a great idea and a good cause.

                Ill get it up as an FAQ or make it a "required reading" sticky or even have it emailed to people when the first become a member.

                Good content can always find a home!

                8-)

                PS: It would be better to email me a link if you want me to see or comment in a specific thread... I read nearly all of them but around BeanBay packing time a few fall through the gaps.


                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                  Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1224157582/0#16 date=1224220719
                  After comments in another thread about the quality of advice offered at times I figured it was time we created a list of "Coffee Snobs Home (Barista) Truths" which is the sort of standard FAQs that you often see on other forums advising new people to read before posting the usual questions we get. Perhaps these could be placed in a sticky and Andy puts a link to these in his autogreeting message.

                  OK I also know that these are also often not read so someone will ask that question anyway but I thought it might also be useful to hone some of the advice offered so at least its consistent. Even so, it might assist the lurkers who are afraid to ask. I must say that CS is one of the friendliest forums I have ever participated in. Fire extinguishers rarely get a work out - very civilized. Anyway, here goes, feel free to add or correct
                  Has anybody read the purpose of all this in post #1 “as in the quote above?”The purpose of all this is a "QUICK NEW CS MEMBER GUIDE" with CS links that can be added to a sticky post and also to Andy’s welcome to CS message

                  Lucas contribution is fine but in this context it will be better for that amount of detailed information to have a separate section e.g. “Advanced and Detailed Guide to Coffee”  
                  It will be better to have a link to this or any other relevant post
                  Remember the KISS principle

                  I sent a PM to flynn to include the basic home roasting section
                  as you can see it is 3.5 lines long


                  KK
                  This is something thats worthwhile getting more feedback on.

                  I think that the FAQ should be a document that provides a relatively full and uncontroversial answer to each question in as brief a format as possible. I dont think that we should be concerned with the length of the whole FAQ. The idea is that the reader navigates to the section that is of interest and reads that, not that the reader reads the whole document in one go.

                  My spiel on freshness is about 375 words long. An average reading speed would be about 200 wpm and I imagine that many would read at 350 wpm or more. This means that an average person would need to spend two minutes reading that segment. That being the case, I dont think that its worth shortening the answer. If we are going to create this FAQ, I think that we have an obligation to make sure that it is accurate and complete. There are many, many coffee FAQs around the internet and most of them are a joke, precisely because they endeavour to answer everything in one sentence. I dont think that CS should sacrifice completeness and accuracy for the interests of length, but I think that it would be good to get everyone elses opinion on that.

                  Similarly, every spiel that I have written for brewing methods ought to take less than a minute for your average person to read. The purpose of this section is to pick up on beanflyings excellent point about manual brewing methods. People may have something sitting in the cupboard that they dont know much about and it would be wonderful if the FAQ would set them on the path to getting great coffee out of it without feeling that they need to spend hundreds of dollars on an espresso machine and grinder. They dont need to read each entry and the structure of what I wrote facilitates easy skimming. If you can get across the characteristics, methods of use, advantages and disadvantages of each brewing method in fewer words, please do so. For example, I was probably wordier than necessary in writing about siphons.

                  I dont think that you can move the overview of coffee freshness or brewing apparatus into a more advanced document because if you are drinking coffee or planning on drinking coffee, you need to know something about your brewing apparatus and you need to know about fresh coffee.

                  Personally, I think that people reading a coffee forum are probably willing to spend several minutes getting the right information. The layout of the FAQ would be important in allowing them to get the right info quickly. Typical FAQ layouts are very good for this. If necessary, I guess that you could put a summary at the beginning of the document or you could begin each question with a one sentence overview in italics (I did that on the machine review on my blog because I suspected that people would want to skim read it).

                  Thoughts?

                  Cheers,

                  Luca

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                    Well given Andys OKd it, I will make a start on putting a list together on whats been added so far and include some milk steaming tips as well. Sounds like "Should I buy an automatic coffee maker?" might need to be added to the list

                    I write training docs, FAQs and work instructions as part of my job so Im aware of the depth vs brevity balance but I find its always best to tend towards the latter as too much detail confuses. Its meant to be an introductory thing and if they require more detail well there are plenty of willing CSers to answer these.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                      Luca

                      I still stand by my comment that your content is not suitable for a welcome message or a brief FAQ

                      It is however very appropriate to go in a more detail post
                      “Advanced and Detailed Guide to Coffee” or similar heading

                      What will be suitable on a welcome message is a link to this topic

                      So get to writing one and post it
                      If you have omitted something the CS community will tell you

                      KK

                      Edit
                      I should add that I for one enjoy reading Lucas in depth posts
                      I know how much work goes into them
                      Keep up the good work

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                        flynnaus, KK,

                        I understand what your position is, but what I would like to know is what you propose to put up instead. I presume that what you propose regarding freshness is the existing answer under "what coffee should I buy?" How do you propose to address beanflyings point about other brewing methods? As I said, I dont consider the basic overview of different brewing methods to be "advanced and detailed." It might well be detailed in the sense that there is a fair bit of writing there, but I dont think that what I have written about any of the brewing methods could ever pass for "detailed" or "advanced." In most other countries, that would be basics and anything to do with espresso would be advanced. The non-espresso brewing methods are generally cheaper and easier than espresso and, so, are things that I imagine would be of interest to newbies to at least consider. Particularly if they are also interested in home roasting.

                        No offence taken whatsoever and I am genuinely keen to see what you propose.

                        Cheers,

                        Luca

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                          I will add something about other options as per BFs suggestion but in basic terms. For example,

                          "Those machines look rather expensive. Do I have to buy one to make good coffee?"
                          No, if you aready have a coffee plunger, drip or filter equipment, they are more than capable of making excellent coffee. Click here for some other options for preparing excellent espresso. But to get the best out of your coffee maker, it is a good idea to use freshly ground coffee.

                          Then a "Read more.." link to Lucas content perhaps in a different thread.

                          Reading isnt just about speed, comprehension is more important.  I think your content is great - I learnt a lot from it  - but not necessarily for a newbie Snob. For example, you mention terms like light/heavy body or acidity which someone who isnt beyond the instant coffee experience may not understand.

                          Your siphon/clover explanation is too long-winded for what I proposed. For example, I would start with "Siphon coffee is similar to filter coffee, but uses a vacuum to draw the coffee through the filter. Then a picture of one then "Siphon brewers are often expensive,  have many fragile parts and are difficult to clean but the user has more control over the process"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                            Gday flynnaus,

                            Would you like me to make this thread a "Sticky" or maybe create a new thread for "Final" posting of information that could be sticky and use this thread as a kind of "Sandbox" to throw ideas around?

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                              The latter I think Mal. It would be good to keep this one as a thinktank and have a proper one to house the agreed product. Not sure whether it should be a wiki with open access or restricted access open to a few.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Coffee Snobs Home Truths

                                To my way of thinking it seems most sensible to keep the initial post as concise as possible then place a link or read more hyperlink at the end of that section.

                                I think that to much information initially is off putting to a lot of newbies but to have to search hard for it causes some of the repetitive questions that appear on the fotum.

                                Also the thread should be locked when complete and kept just for info and not a discussion thread as it would just get really confused. Even if locked Andy or one of the mods can always tweak it later.

                                It also makes sense to keep all detail in the one thread including dragging in say KKs milk texturing simple how to that way you can either read the detail points or read from top to bottom as desired.

                                Just trying out some code Link to stuff Post

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