Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdosed?

[tjlusco]

Heyya!

I bought some Campos beans about 3 days ago and all Ive gotten so far is half a kilo of frustration! I the closer I got to a great taste, the next shot would be in the complete wrong direction (running out of water...twice... didnt help either :P). Pretty easy to narrow down though, dosage.. Guesstimation just didnt cut it with these beans.

So, I bought some digital scales to measure the dose, only $50 so not too shabby. I pulled a shot and weighted it... 17.something grams! Which would have been even higher if I hadnt of run out of beans in the hopper. So I evened it up a little using the good old conservation of mass principle (14g beans in = 14g grind out once all of the nooks and crannys are filled), success!

I finally started to get some consistency! Though I ended up wasting 5 shots because the grind was now off by nearly 2 clicks. I was nearly at the sweet point before yet another mysterious drought struck inside the water tank. *doah!* There is always tomorrow...

Also, this got me thinking, if I dosed the crazy American way (make a sand castle and knock it down to a flat surface), I would be dosing at least 20g+ for a double! Does that sound right or do Americans go a little overboard with everything?  :P

Trev

[mwatt]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Im pretty sure its Australian who have the rep for monstrous updosing. No idea about the Americans.

[Thundergod]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

I updose to around 20g.
Never had a problem with Campos beans.

[Dennis]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Since when is 20gm updosing?

[Thundergod]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

If you take 7g to be a single and 14g to be a double.

[tjlusco]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Yeah there is nothing wrong with Campos beans in capable hands, I had an espresso while I was there and it was nothing short of fantastic! I just havent worked them out yet :P

I thought that 14g was basically standard, and 16-18g for over-dosed.... but 20+ seemed way excessive. Im also more worried about the cost per shot, Im only a poor uni student! Considering Im not so much drinking most of the coffee, more tasting and experimenting, Id rather get have another 25 shots to experiment with In a commercial cafe Im guessing they would also consider this as well, as the cost of an extra 30% more coffee would add up very quickly.

[Thundergod]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Roast your own.
Its cheaper.
My wife prefers my coffee to Campos.

[yeeza]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

re: campos and updosing; in their cafes (most that Ive seen) they use LM triple baskets. Seems to work for their coffee.

[tjlusco]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Im considering that too! Might be a fun endeavor for my uni holidays Ive only just started the journey as far as espresso goes, hunting around for the flavors that enjoy!

[rice]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

For me its between 16g to 25g in a synesso/ascaso double basket depending on the blend.
Real pain in the ass trying to play around with dose levels... there never seems to be enough coffee to experiment with at home.

Single basket has given me the most rounded and best tasting espresso at home... not much in the way of volume.

p.s. anyone know how much ground coffee the sunbeam triple basket holds?

[Dimal]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Dont think you need to get too hung up on the weight of beans in the basket. We all know that 7/14g is the nominal weight but in the overall scheme of things (as with many other variables attached to espresso) you want to consider this as more of a guide rather than a rule. Most (commercial sized) espresso machine baskets are deigned and manufactured to standards that ensure enough coffee can be dosed so that it is possible to pull continuously excellent espresso (if you do your part).

Forget the weight and think more in terms of volume, i.e. when the volume in the basket is correct after normal dosing, distribution and tamping (and correct grind) you will soon be able to pull excellent quality espresso on demand, at any time. A bit of practice doesnt hurt of course....

Mal.

[rice]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

The (coffee) Hoffs succinct explanation
http://www.jimseven.com/2007/01/02/espresso-extraction-ratios/

Home-barista has some good reading on the topic. George Sabados wrote an article in the Oct/Nov 2005 issue that is worth finding.
========================

brewing ratios for espresso beverages
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/brewing-ratios-for-espresso-beverages-t2402.html

basket overdosing time for serious re-evaluation
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html

updosing revisited
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/updosing-revisited-t792.html

PF.net posts
http://www.portafilter.net/2006/01/updosing-again.html
http://www.portafilter.net/2006/01/updosing-again-again.html

[splashalot]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Many thanks for the excellent resources, Rice

[luca]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Regarding Campos, note that they offer multiple blends and you might actually prefer something different. For example, you might find that dark city is easier to work with and produces espresso more to your tastes than superior.

Cheers,

Luca

[tjlusco]

Re: Dosing - Scales = Awesome, Americans = Overdos

Wow excellent readings there Rice! Kept me up last night :P I think that the some blends lend themselves better to being up-dosed definitely has a lot of merit. Also, YeeZa must be right about the triple baskets for Campos. After another day of experimenting... I couldnt get a shot that was sweet enough using 16g, still rather bitter with a really slow pour. If I went any finer it would have stalled my machine!

So I upped it to 17g, which is basically as full at my basket gets without messing about to much... the result was magic! I finally got it to balance out, and the sweetness was there... Still not quite the same as what I was getting at Campos, but its on its way. Im going to try 18g tomorrow, submitting to the leveling techniques :P We shall see how that goes!