Bean storage Local specialty coffee shop

[Javaphile]

Continue with your rambling cherry picking of partial statements and attempts to dress them up using pseudo scientific statements all you like CocoaJackson. In the end knowledgeable roasters and coffee drinkers alike know that many varietals of coffee beans which have been properly stored do not reach peak flavor until more than 14 days after they've been roasted with some taking twice that long to reach the point of maximum desirable flavor.


Java "Done and dusted, anything more is just feeding the troll" phile

[GrahamK]

Just to interject a wee bit of science into what seems to have become a derailed discussion. "Espresso Coffee The Science of Quality" by Illy & Viani (2nd Edtion), chapter 6.1.2.1 Degassing:

Carbon Dioxide formed during roasting is trapped in the cellular structure of the bean and is only released over a period of weeks following roasting, resulting in a 1.5%-1.7% weight loss. The amount of gas released can be estimated at 6-10Ltr per 1 Kg bean depending on roasting degree, the higher figure being valid for dark roasted blends.
Degassing rate is inversely related to time from roasting. The massive degassing that take place in the early hours after roasting slows down gradually, and it may take months for all CO2 to be released from the bean. The process is slow because much of the CO2 is bound to the bean structure. It also mentions that there are 2 different mechanisms that control CO2 release, in the beginning pressure gradients between the inside & outside of the bean and then by molecular diffusion.

The whole paragraph is backed up by scientific facts and published observations, much of which is out of my area of knowledge. But it is a well known source of facts

I think it helps me get a more realistic handle on the time estimates. Plus I agree with the anecdotal comments, many from those I know have walked the talk for a long time, that beans such as Monsoon Malabar take way longer than usual to reach their optimum, and therefore any general statements regarding time limits are best qualified by the caveat that they are at best the observations of the poster rather than a statement indicating a scientific fact. I'm sure most of us that roast, are especially aware of the many variables that can affect deterioration rates including storage conditions, bean type, roast depth, roast type, expectations, palate.......

GrahamK

[TC]

Ok I'll play...

Perhaps you might do us a favour and choose another playground

[CocoaJackson]

"Not a single one of those definitions makes your statement..." wrote Javaphile

Ok I'll play [emoji447]

Keywords; 'meaningless' - 'single' - 'meaningful'

As far as I am aware a roasted coffee bean becomes still is a chemical compound after roasting, and altered deliberately.

Now if you do a little scan of your dictionary 'quote' you have written; '...to reduce the complexity of (a chemical compound)...'
Clearly is the application to my use of the word 'degrade' in context in regard to roasted beans timeline of desirableness.

Do another little scan of this thread and our conversation I thought was about roasting coffee; or changing the state of a natural product through processing...
Put in scientific terms - altering the chemical compound of coffee beans to enhance flavour and commercial desirability.

I'll give you something to look up since your dictionary is open, the word and meaning of 'subjective'.

It might help to keep this word in mind when critiquing a fellow coffee lovers comment meaning to avoid projecting personal values onto any comment context.

My final word on this hideous conversation is - Dunning Kruger effect, something everyone could be 'mindful of' on this blog.
http://goo.gl/5rehd6

[CocoaJackson]

"14 days is not a one size fits all measurement" wrote fatboy_1999

Interesting comment, not sure how it qualifies as relevant.

However it is true some coffee drinkers smoke tobacco and write into coffee blogs as 'informed experts'. So that point is taken.

Generally speaking off gassing is measured in hours and for the sake of brevity I rounded it to days. Apologies for the lack of accuracy...

As for the projection of 'trolling' onto my comments; anyone following the thread can see that says far more about your values than mine [emoji52]

[Javaphile]

Just to make plain English clearer let me quote Merriam-Webster:

Full Definition of DEGRADE
transitive verb
1

a : to lower in grade, rank, or status : demote
b : to strip of rank or honors
c : to lower to an inferior or less effective level <degrade the image quality>
d : to scale down in desirability or salability

2

a : to bring to low esteem or into disrepute <his actions have degraded his profession>
b : to drag down in moral or intellectual character : corrupt

3

: to impair in respect to some physical property <material degraded by exposure to sunlight>

4

: to wear down by erosion

5

: to reduce the complexity of (a chemical compound) : decompose

intransitive verb
1

: to pass from a higher grade or class to a lower

2

of a chemical compound : to become reduced in complexity

Not a single one of those definitions makes your statement "Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition." true unless you also agree with the statement that the beans start degrading with-in minutes of being roasted. Which of course makes your statement meaningless. While any number of them make Chris's and my statements not only true but meaningful.


Java "Here endeth the English lesson" phile

[fatboy_1999]

Ahh - never mind. Just saw your latest response. You're just trollin'.
Now we can just ignore you.

[fatboy_1999]

It's no good partially quoting the statement that caused the confusion.
You wrote:

Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

Both responses (and me for that matter) take issue with the whole statement.
14 days is not a one size fits all measurement.
And as to the 'science' in the comment - there is no reference to proof, so not sure what you mean.

Your response seems out of proportion to me.

[CocoaJackson]

"Didn't see much science..." wrote Barry O'Speedwagon

No shit Sherlock [emoji52]

But it is interesting 'BO' why you haven't 'justified' our centre of gravity who pay for a brew demand fresh beans and clever operators oblige.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Just to make plain English clearer.
The keywords I wrote were 'until the bean degrades'.

Now if both highly sensitive commenters can explain just how the science in my comment is inaccurate or derogatory it would be appreciated...

[emoji52]

???? What was highly sensitive about the responses? They simply qualified the information in your post that could have been misleading if treated as some universal law. Seems a fair contribution to the debate to me.

Didn't see to much 'science' in the post to be honest. Stating that something degrades and loses condition after an arbitrary point of time is simply an assertion (albeit one that is reasonable in many cases). One of the blokes who replied to you *is* a roaster from Melbourne where you live.

[CocoaJackson]

Just to make plain English clearer.
The keywords I wrote were 'until the bean degrades'.

Now if both highly sensitive commenters can explain just how the science in my comment is inaccurate or derogatory it would be appreciated...

"It depends on the palate" wrote Talk Coffee

Right...
Whatever, just try and explain that to the roasters and premium coffee houses where I live in Melbourne. [emoji52]

[TC]

Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

....and that that statement is a gross generalisation. We have some that you wouldn't want to even think about for at least 3 weeks.

As always, it depends on the beans and also the palate...

[Javaphile]

Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

Blend52 learned the reality of this industry benchmark.
There is literally no way around fresh roasted beans for full flavour[emoji108]

Not all beans are bad after 14 days. In point of fact some are just starting to come into peak flavor at or even after that amount of time.


Java "Monsooned what?" phile

[CocoaJackson]

Just remember you have 14 days until the bean degrades and losses condition.

Blend52 learned the reality of this industry benchmark.
There is literally no way around fresh roasted beans for full flavour[emoji108]

[science-teacher]

Yeah on the sunny coast i just didnt want to mention any names haha
They're so nice and have a great cafe, but whyyyyyyyyyyy