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  • Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

    I have just roasted this bean twice today in a corretto , 420g green , and results are not great . First lot showed a fair bit of tipping ,with divets and a burnt chomp. Roast colour is inconsistant, I hit FC @ 198/11min and SC 213/16-20. FC was easily heard , SC not so much.Hardly any chaff or smoke.

    I knew immeddiately the first roast was rubbish so I tried again. slowed it down a bit at the start and hit FC at 12-25min and SC 17-50 , pulled it at 18-10min , the roast colour looks about CS8-9 , and still inconsistant in colour,with less tipping and still very little smoke.

    I dont hold out much hope for either of these roasts, but I will give them time to develop and see what shots taste like.

    Can anyone with experience of this been offer any advice....

    Greg

  • #2
    Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

    Gday Greg,

    Beans from this region can be quite hard and dense so youve got to be a bit careful not push the roast batch too quickly towards First Crack(FC), especially from the Straw colour stage through into Cinnamon. I know that in a commercial drum roaster, a lot of pros are able to push the roast quite quickly without suffering detrimental effects but this is hard to do with a Corretto because of the direct, narrow stream of heated air from the heatgun.

    Ive found that with my setup, a slow-ish accelerating ramp up until the first snaps of FC are heard then heat backed off so as to maintain a ramp of about 1.5-2.0C/Minute through Rolling FC and once it starts to taper off, increase the heat to maintain a ramp of about 4-5C/Minute until the first crackles of Second Crack(SC) are heard and then remove the heat. Allow the batch to coast along for a little while (20-30 seconds) until it reaches your desired roast colour then dump and immediately cool. For my palate I tend to leave these rest for at least a week in a sealed 1-Way Valve bag before trying but you could start trying them from about 48Hrs onwards to see where you like em best.

    All the best mate...

    Mal.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

      Hi Mal ,

      Thanks for your insight and experience with this style of bean.
      After the first roast i did I knew immediately it would be a terrible so I did another, slowing things down a bit .... BUT not enough..... I probably pushed it a little bit too much between 140-180* , even after a slow start.

      Fore warned is fore armed...... Next roast may have a chance...

      Cheers
      Greg

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

        Hi Guys,

        I am a learner.
        Generally, I hurry to over 100C then take it easy during the drying phase unless a bean is denser in which case I would really dawdle towards the neighbourhood of first crack.

        What opinion do you have on this management?
        Both for the bean type currently under discussion and more generally?
        Any further thoughts?

        Kind Regards
        Lindsay

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

          Hi Linds,

          My advice after two shockers is be very gentle with your heat on this bean ..... My first roast showed a lot of tipping ( which I believe is produced in the first few minutes of the roasting )....
          Next time I do this bean ..... will look like this
          1 min 35*
          2 45
          3 55
          4 70
          5 85
          6 100...... continuing till about 175 ..... then slow it down 185....195 ..... till FC ..... and slow to SC

          My first 2 roasts I pushed them between 140-180 20-22*/min....

          I havent tried my roasts yet but I reckon they will be mulch....

          Cheers
          Greg

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

            Greg,

            Particularly I dont understand why a roast of any bean should be allowed to crawl to 100C.
            Whats your logic or the guiding observations?

            Also following is my simplistic view of the rest of the process.
            Is there anything erroneous in these statements and what practical improvements can I make to my next roasts, for beans of this type and more generally.

            My assumptions are:
            1). up to circa 100C nothing much happens but water loss slowly proceeds.

            2). about 100C to about 150C heat is absorbed into the bean core and water content escapes as the bean temp esculates.

            3). beyond 150C the chemical flavour reactions which we require occur.

            4). when we pull the roast we seek to arrest the very rapid rate of reaction at the preferred flavour point.

            5). we cool our beans immediately reducing the rate of chemical reactions to an un avoidable slow rate of chemical reaction, this is where CSrs are most interested in the bean before spoilage finally wins.

            Kind Regards
            Lindsay

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

              Originally posted by 2F2A2D2730223A3122430 link=1250412269/5#5 date=1250660936
              Greg,

              Particularly  I dont understand why a roast of any bean should be allowed  to crawl to 100C.
              Whats your logic or the guiding observations?

              Also following is my simplistic view of the rest of the process.
              Is there anything erroneous in these statements and what practical improvements can I make to my next roasts, for beans of this type and more generally.

              My assumptions are:
              1). up to circa 100C nothing much happens but water loss slowly proceeds.

              2). about 100C to about 150C heat is absorbed into the bean core and water content escapes as the bean temp esculates.

              3). beyond 150C the chemical flavour reactions which we require occur.

              4). when we pull the roast we seek to arrest the very rapid rate of reaction at the preferred flavour point.

              5). we cool our beans immediately reducing the rate of chemical reactions to an un avoidable slow rate of chemical reaction, this is where CSrs are most interested in the bean before spoilage finally wins.

              Kind Regards
              Lindsay
              I have found a difference, maybe its just my corretto?

              If I rush to 100C I get tipping. Any roast profile I do the first couple of minutes will be below 100C.
              My thought behind it is that the tipping was being caused be the temperature difference between the air/surface of the roaster and the bean. I could be completely wrong in my theory but my roaster seems to behave that way.

              If I crawl (10C per min) from 50C to 100C-120C then race to 200C (30C per minute) slowing down before FC (210C), it brings out the acid and floral notes. This is what I call a "soft roast", trying to reduce the amount of heat energy getting into the bean.

              If go slow 50C - 60C, then medium 60C-90C, race to 170C, then slow to FC, it tones down the acid and gets more caramel/chocolate notes. This is what I call a "hard roast". The same FC time as the soft roast but far more heat energy into the bean. This works really well on harsh tasting beans like Sidamo.

              The profile before FC seems to set the "notes". The profile to and after SC seems to set the "tone" of the notes (make sense?). In fact what happens after FC doesnt seem to effect what is in the cup that much.
              Again maybe just my corretto. And again, if I dont start slow I get tipping.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                Hi BW,

                Ill try to take your thoughts and experience on board and meditate on it.

                Thankyou for sharing
                Kind Regards
                Lindsay

                PS
                I have run off at the mouth more comprehensively and repetitiously next door on thread: Getting Bits for a Corretto, sorry probably better avoided.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                  Hi Lindsay,

                  Im pretty new to this corretto roasting and generally try to ask the more experienced roasters if Im unsure.

                  I have read quite a few of Mals post and I know he favours the slow start to prevent tipping...... With this bean I got heaps of tipping , more than I have ever seen on any bean , Ive only done about 20+ roasts and definitely not enough to sort out the various nuances that comes with experience ...... but my advice here would be to start slow 10-12 /min and dont try to push it at any point of the roast.

                  I also think that a corretto roaster is can be the wrong tool if the bean doesnt appreciate being hit with a HG blast.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                    Yeah,

                    I think tipping and uneven roasting through the bean can be exacerbated via the Corretto method if youre not very careful. The trouble is, if you then try to use a heat-spreader of some description to break up the narrow stream of heated air, it becomes more difficult to get the beans roasting quickly enough with the batch sizes I like to roast. The heat spreaders seem to cool the air down too much. Very much between a rock and a hard place and one of the reasons Im thinking about building one of KKs Turbo Oven Roasters.....

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                      Hi Mal,
                      What sort of heat spreader do your comments refer to?
                      What is your standard roast mass (green)?
                      Turboroaster mmm interesting but several other projects on the list infront of TRer.

                      Originally posted by 25080C000D610 link=1250412269/9#9 date=1250686810
                      , if you then try to use a heat-spreader of some description to break up the narrow stream of heated air, it becomes more difficult to get the beans roasting quickly enough with the batch sizes I like to roast. The heat spreaders seem to cool the air down too much. Very much between a rock and a hard place and one of the reasons Im thinking about building one of KKs Turbo Oven Roasters.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                        Originally posted by 404542485F4D555E4D2C0 link=1250412269/10#10 date=1250753057
                        Hi Mal,
                        1.   What sort of heat spreader do your comments refer to?
                        2.   What is your standard roast mass (green)?
                        3.   Turboroaster mmm interesting but several other projects on the list infront of TRer.
                        Gday KT....

                        Answering in order...

                        1.   You know the standard types that fit to the nozzle of most heatguns... theres one that Fans the air out with an incidence angle from about 60-90 degrees, another one that diverts the air from the main air-stream by about 75-90 degrees. With my setup, for them to be of any use I have to reduce my batch size too much and Im not prepared to do that.

                        2.  750-800g

                        3. Yes mate, havent we all.... ;D Seems to be par for the course once you become a CSer

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                          Hi Mal,

                          on 1). Need think time to reflect on your words.

                          on 2). my confidence hasnt taken me there yet.
                          But you inspire me, what are the defining features of your Corretto set up?

                          Churning sounds, tttttthhhhhiiiinnking...more data required??

                          Kind Regards
                          Lindsay

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                            Originally posted by 3530373D2A38202B38590 link=1250412269/12#12 date=1250846190
                            what are the defining features of your Corretto set up?
                            Its nothing special Lindsay....

                            Just a Breville Big Loaf with the horizontal bread pan and two kneading blades/paddles; heat supplied by a simple Hi/Lo output Ryobi heatgun mounted on a small Bunnings style Drill Press Stand ($13.00). It is possible to roast batches larger than the above and I have actually managed one that was just over a Kilo but my cooling setup was overloaded with that batch size. 750-800g is quite comfortably managed.

                            The other issue with going to larger batch sizes than this, the bread-pan needs to be covered in order to retain the extra thermal energy required in order to have some level of control over the roast profile. Without the cover, the roast time drags out too much and I dont really have any control over the profile at all.... Just run the heatgun flat out and as close to the batch surface as Im game. Not much fun really...

                            Cheers,
                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sulawesi Tana Torajah Kalosi bean advice

                              Originally posted by 527F7B777A160 link=1250412269/13#13 date=1250868130
                              The other issue with going to larger batch sizes than this, the bread-pan needs to be covered in order to retain the extra thermal energy required in order to have some level of control over the roast profile. Without the cover, the roast time drags out too much and I dont really have any control over the profile at all.... Just run the heatgun flat out and as close to the batch surface as Im game. Not much fun really...
                              Hi Mal,
                              Im no expert but for comfort at extreme roast masses have you considered powering the heating element for heat boost?
                              Possibilities may include:
                              - manually regulated with a vanilla On/Off switch (0 or 240V).
                              or
                              - power regulated between 0-100% with the assistance of a Voltage regulating/pulsing device, perhaps something rescued from an obsolete/junker electric stove.

                              I would be more comfortable with a little reserve heating capacity rather than flat out and watching the clock and hoping.

                              Andy has suggested to me on the topic of preheating the pan that the second roast is always quicker!    Know what he meant?
                              So recently have taken to preheating roast bin prior to a roast, or from another angle,  the double roasts, the first without beans and short the second with beans and and regular elapsed time.
                              Kind Regards
                              Lindsay

                              Comment

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