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Sourness in a Colombian roast?

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  • Sourness in a Colombian roast?

    Hi all,

    There are a few variables in what Ive been doing below, but hopefully you guys can still offer some advice.

    I have a Saeco Via Venezia machine and Nemox Lux grinder, which Ive been making mostly lattes on quite happily for a year now. Ive also just started roasting my own beans with a heat gun, starting with a Colombian, but I happened to start while my Via Venezia was at Saeco being repaired so Ive been testing the beans at work on a Saeco super-auto, after settling for 24-36 hours.

    Meanwhile, I visited Maling Room the other day (its only a ten-minute walk from home!) and had an incredible double ristretto, which has made me really want move away from lattes and in to espresso. When I picked up my machine from Saeco I grabbed a non-pressurised portafilter and extra baskets, and after some experimenting with some Brazil Daterra Reserve beans from St Ali Ive been able to get some pretty decent 25-30 second espresso shots happening that taste much better than any espresso I managed with the stock PPF.

    Today though, I roasted up some more Colombian (first crack at about 12 minutes, and stopped at about 16 before second crack) and put it straight in the machine. The roasted beans looked pretty good, and smelled wonderful, and the espresso I made looked pretty good too. When I tasted it though, there was a distinct, almost lemony sourness in the cup. It wasnt totally overpowering, or even entirely unpleasant, but it just struck me because I hadnt tasted anything like it before.

    Is this the kind of flavour profile I should expect from a Colombian, or could it be something that will mellow out as the beans settle? Alternatively, is it something I could have introduced with improper roasting or brewing technique?

    Thanks
    Leigh

  • #2
    Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

    You cant judge the coffee by what it tates like immediately after roasting. Most beans will taste horrible made as an espresso immediately after roasting.

    Let the beans rest awhile and then see what they taste like.


    Java "Wishes he could rest as long as his beans do!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    • #3
      Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

      i just roasted some columbian peaberry and it was soooo sour and fruity in the 2-4 days old, so i waited 7 days and its not too bad. Not great but another 2 days and it should settle down

      Andrew

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      • #4
        Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

        Originally posted by AndyL link=1155196827/0#2 date=1155198623
        i just roasted some columbian peaberry and it was soooo sour and fruity in the 2-4 days old, so i waited 7 days and its not too bad. Not great but another 2 days and it should settle down
        I light roasted some starter pack Colombian about ten days ago. It was very
        frustrating. After one day, a woody green tasting gusher. Not nice.
        After five days, still could only get fast extraction and a slight improvement
        in taste. I used up most of what Id roasted trying to get a decent
        extraction!

        But since then Ive taken 2MCMs weeties comment to heart and got into
        tapping and dosing up    So a little earlier this evening I brought out the
        last of this batch and packed it tight into a double basket. Extraction was
        just magnificent, perfect timing to blonding point.

        ANd the taste was extraordinary. A veritable explosion of flavours, still
        somewhat on the citrus end of the spectrum but in an interesting way.
        And slightly "spritzig" to use a wine term (actually somewhat reminiscent
        of a malolactic fermentation, a characteristic thats often regarded as a
        defect but which I often like).

        So in the end Im happy with it (even though I suspect theres a way to
        go to get the best out of it).

        Of course theres none left now, so I have to roast some more!

        Anyway, Ive never had a coffee before with flavours like this Colombian, so
        Im pretty pleased with the new discovery. I think Im hooked on roasting
        now.

        The learning curve continues ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

          Originally posted by lsd link=1155196827/0#0 date=1155196827
          Hi all,
          Today though, I roasted up some more Colombian (first crack at about 12 minutes, and stopped at about 16 before second crack)
          I did the exact same thing the other day. I roasted some in a popper and got to first crack at about 8mins (usually around 5mins) and then at 15mins I gave up before second crack (which usually happens at around 10mins). The beans are visably lighter in colour to the batch I had done previously. And I seem to get a much more harsh flavour from them. Previously I have been really happy with these beans as a simple 100% variety, but this time I got the same flavours as you have! I will roast some more tonight and this time I am waiting till second crack no matter how long it takes!

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          • #6
            Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

            Hey there T.D.,

            If your roast is extending out too long in duration, all you need to do is add a few more beans.... say 10-15 grams at a time... until the roast time is back on track. Alternatively, you could find something to restrict the outflow of air from the chimney (not too much) so that the air heats up a bit more before entering the roast chamber. Believe it or not, I just use a short piece of old hardwood fence paling to sit over the top of the chimney, and it works a treat 8-). Just move the wood over the hole until you can hear the fan speed change a little bit (speeds up) and so long as the beans are still able to move around actively, everything should be ok.....

            Cheers,
            Mal.

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            • #7
              Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

              After trying to make a lighter roast of some colombians in my starter pack I was disappointed aswell. There is such a fine line between success and failure with my popper.
              My next step is to separate the blow and heat circuits and put resistors on them so I can moderate more precisely the "profile".
              Great to hear your experiences, Im improving my technique vicariously, no need to "waste" any more of my beans re-inventing the wheel.

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              • #8
                Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                Thanks for the feedback guys -- its been a couple of days now, and that sourness is still there, but well see how it goes over the next few days. I think Ill roast up another batch a bit darker to compare as well. With shorter roast times Id taken them a bit too far and ended up with a bit of a burnt taste, but now that Ive extended the roast time out (thanks to some more hints from you guys -- man id be lost doing this on my own!) I should have a better shot at getting a nice roast happening.

                Ive just ordered a starter pack too, so I should have a few different beans to play with soon. Cant wait!

                Thanks
                Leigh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                  Originally posted by lsd link=1155196827/0#7 date=1155345829
                  Thanks for the feedback guys -- its been a couple of days now, and that sourness is still there, but well see how it goes over the next few days. I think Ill roast up another batch a bit darker to compare as well. With shorter roast times Id taken them a bit too far and ended up with a bit of a burnt taste, but now that Ive extended the roast time out (thanks to some more hints from you guys -- man id be lost doing this on my own!) I should have a better shot at getting a nice roast happening.

                  Ive just ordered a starter pack too, so I should have a few different beans to play with soon. Cant wait!

                  Thanks
                  Leigh

                  Delaying the roast on my most recent batch of colombians helped alot. Still just on the second crack but the second crack didnt start for nearly thirteen minutes.

                  The "candied orange in dark chocolate" after taste is a real bonus.

                  Andy Freeman and Coffee Snobs everywhere ROCK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                    Presso, how long did you leave your most recent batch before trying them?
                    Ive just done one this afternoon, leaving it until a little into second crack
                    (only 8 mins in my popper). Tempted to try now, but will resist.

                    Wondering what flavours will be in there this time ...

                    I was using my just acquired thermocouple today (2nd crack came at about
                    240C). I think you posted a pic of your setup where you had a t/c plugged into
                    a device giving a temp readout. Im using mine (via a chain of alligator clips)
                    with a DMM, which is a bit of a pain. None of our local alleged specialist electronics
                    shops have these readers. Where did you get yours?

                    thanks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                      Originally posted by Presso link=1155196827/0#8 date=1155381043
                      Delaying the roast on my most recent batch of colombians helped alot. Still just on the second crack but the second crack didnt start for nearly thirteen minutes.

                      The "candied orange in dark chocolate" after taste is a real bonus.

                      Andy Freeman and Coffee Snobs everywhere ROCK.
                      I think thats what Ill try for next -- now that Ive got my roast times out a bit I can hopefully pull them off just at second crack and get them out of the bowl and cooling before they start to over-roast.

                      I did some more fiddling with my espresso machine tonight too, and managed to get rid of a lot of the sour taste in the bean by brewing at a higher temperature (ie: leaving the machine and portafilter to heat up longer before using it). Moving away from the pressured portafilter certainly takes some learning, but Im sure with a bit more practice Ill be getting great espresso out of this thing.

                      The guys here certainly do rock Thanks to you all for all your help!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                        Originally posted by hazbean link=1155196827/0#9 date=1155382323
                        Presso, how long did you leave your most recent batch before trying them?
                        Where did you get yours?

                        thanks!
                        I tested at 48 hrs, 72 hrs, 96 hrs and 144hrs then gave up.

                        My t/c came from evilbay, in hong kong for $60 delivered, I bought an extra probe for my high temperature furnace which cost $80 by it self! :-?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                          Some of the bitterness mentioned may not be the fault of the beans, but the water temperature and other factors.

                          I love the Colombians, peaberry or normal size, and find that two, even one day after roasting they are ready for the grinder.

                          Bitterness may result from cold water, from stale coffee oil remnants on the shower screen and other places.

                          Robusto

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                          • #14
                            Re: Sourness in a Colombian roast?

                            Hi folks,

                            Another 5c worth.
                            Fellow CS of mine, RH had been experimenting with Columbian roasts and had taken a relatively long roast profile using heat gun.
                            I had tried a blend of the medium and dark roasts which was average, BUT,
                            the following week he gave me another taste of a medium roast, ("roasted properly" was his comment, which I understood to mean a shorter time and stopped before second crack),
                            please bear in mind I am not an espresso fan normally,
                            the aroma initially was pleasantly spicy, like cinnamon, and the taste was very pleasant.

                            I guess my point is dont give up,
                            keep trying and change one variable at a time,
                            and yes brew temp does make a difference.

                            Regards
                            Bullitt

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