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Just how good is home roasting?

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  • #16
    Re: Just how good is home roasting?

    I started home roasting in an attempt to drink better coffee than I was getting using supermarket stale roasted beans.
    Went down the (usual) path of Popper (6 months) then Corretto (about 12 months now). The Popper was an eye opener in terms of what (good coffee taste) could be achieved. Progressed to the Corretto for the degree of control and roast sizes available.
    I have bought a reasonable amount of commercially roasted coffee in the last six months as a check on my home roasts.
    The conclusion I have come to is that, to me, my home roasts are the equal of most of the commercial offerings that I tried.
    Also I can tailor the roasts to what I enjoy.
    Now if I lived close to Jasons place up at Yandina, or close to the Snobbery down south, then I might have a rethink, but as things stand Im happy to keep on roasting.

    Cheers,
    Alan.

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    • #17
      Re: Just how good is home roasting?

      Originally posted by Thundergod link=1230245340/0#14 date=1230286964
      One thing I get from it, as others have said above, is the satisfaction I get from the praise of family and friends.

      I also like introducing people to good coffee;
      teaching them that theres better coffee out there than in most cafes.
      But couldnt the same be said even if you went out and just bought good quality roasted beans?

      I travel a great deal and am often asked what the coffee scene is like here in Sydney. I have to confess to them that, as bizarre as it sounds, Im really not THAT familiar. If Im in Sydney some of the best coffee I can get (without  trying to sound like Im "blowing my own trumpet" btw) is in my own home so I dont bother going anywhere else (mind you the service sucks, the venue is a dump, and the Barista smells). I thought I had better change that so the other day I went into town to a, umm, certain "5 bean rated" cafe, possibly in the CBD. Maybe in some royal sounding street? Anyway, if thats the best thats on offer in Sydney, Im staying home more often.   Good, very good actually, but not great. A hike across town to another "5 bean" jobbie had me rewarded with a "closed for renovations" sign.  

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      • #18
        Re: Just how good is home roasting?

        Originally posted by PeteF link=1230245340/0#16 date=1230289096
        But couldnt the same be said even if you went out and just bought good quality roasted beans?
        Yes.
        But like I said, I have introduced them to good coffee.
        Until then they didnt know it existed.

        I started off with an excellent grinder and coffee machine, no upgraditis for me.
        At the same time I sourced excellent roasted beans; maybe lucky, maybe good research.

        I had the good fortune to be able to learn a lot about coffee from that roaster and in time, when I started roasting for myself, that knowledge gained came in handy.

        I still buy from roasters I trust in order to guage how I stack up and to gain some more understanding of what good coffee is/can be.

        I was given a copy of "the coffee guide ... Sydney" for Christmas.
        Some of those 5 bean places I have tried and I dont agree with the rating; others I will give a go but they get one shot at it (pun intended).

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        • #19
          Re: Just how good is home roasting?

          Pete
          I think that you a limited in your results due to the equipment you are using.
          However you have not indicated what you are using
          I see only one cure for this
          Build a roaster that has a proven record (results speak for themselves)
          or buy a ready made unit like the Hottop or a Gene Cafe

          At least with the Hottop you can control your roast and store your favored results to be reproduced in auto mode

          I am confident that your home roasting results will improve
          You just need the right tools

          Short of that you can enquire from fellow members that live close to you if they would not mind giving you a sample of home roasted coffee.
          Even if it’s only to compare the commercial product with the home roast

          You (as in yourself) can’t judge a commercial product against your own efforts as you have stated “because you are a beginner and not as experienced”

          However a competent home roaster I believe can produce a product that if judged would hold there own

          KK



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          • #20
            Re: Just how good is home roasting?

            Originally posted by Mal link=1230245340/0#12 date=1230279616
            Is it worth it? To me... Hell yes! I imagine it must parallel the satisfaction of one who is passionate about food and has taken the time and trouble to learn how to get the best out of all the wonderful produce that abounds within our country. Someone who excels at this and does it for a living may be allowed to call oneself a Chef whereas someone who does it just at home for the family, friends and relos is more generally known as a great cook. I guess Im hoping to become, if not great, then a decent cook. Still have a long way to go I reckon but every now and again, the coffee I roast here at home really blows my socks off (and that of my family, friends and relos) and that really makes all the effort (and failures) worthwhile.
            Mal, you took the words right out of my mouth!...I have a friend who drops in literally begging me for a decent coffee, because the one he had in some dive in Melbourne, tasted like burnt milk and made him gag just at the first taste. ;D

            I love doing what I do, for the pleasure it gives me and those who drink my coffee.

            -Linda

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            • #21
              Re: Just how good is home roasting?

              Originally posted by PeteF link=1230245340/0#13 date=1230284761
              I do a huge number of things myself, in all manner of areas, from home renovation, car servicing, electronics, mechanical engineering, furniture making, and so it goes on. Sure I get satisfaction from doing the work, but the main reason I do it is because I know the chances are Ill do the job better, albeit MUCH slower, than if I was to get a so called "professional" in to do it. Each area involves a whole set of skills I have to learn and problems ..... (etc)
              Pete,

              Im not dissimilar to you in most regards..... BUT if you find a dedicated and motivated person in any of the areas you mention they can - and will - do the job better. They have learnt heaps about their field of endeavour.... and are still learning all the time and getting better... and there is zero chance either you or I could do the job better than they can now (unless we live long enough after they have died so we can develop the same skill level!)

              The unfortunate truth is you have to find those individuals. Many who you come across do it only for the money, do it "because it is all they can do" or their experience is one year- but twenty times over.... they have never gained from their experience..... Yes, we can do the job better than these people because we have the enthusiasm and get satisfaction from doing the job correctly which they dont have or will ever get. Yes it will take us longer, yes it maybe more expensive (correcting mistakes along the way)...... but we can do it!

              Coffee roasting is a lot like that. There are excellent roasters who have passion and demand perfection of themselves..... But for every one of those there are probably 10 roasters who are turning out a mediocre, boring and certainly not a quality roast..... over, and over, and over again.

              So you can hunt out the passionate roasters (and site sponsors are a good starting point)..... and purchase their beans. If you do roast your own (and the same applies to  " home renovation, car servicing, electronics, mechanical engineering, furniture making" ) - you should always compare your results to a known "passionate" expert..... and make sure what you are doing is up to par. It is a reality check which needs to be done every so often...... Not only "do my roasted beans come close to xxxxxx" but also "when I do my expert car service - have I actually missed something important"...... Without resetting your frame of reference to a known good source..... there is a danger that you will continue in "ignorant bliss" - believing that you are doing a good job when you arent is far too easy (and there are already enough "professionals" doing that!)

              And when you do check against the reference you will know how well you are doing..... and in roasting I know Im doing far better than most "run of the mill" roasters..... but not as well as someone who is a professional roaster with better equipment and a similar level of passion - but with a lot more experience...... And as long as they continue to roast, they will improve..... but I can never catch up.....

              However it is fun trying..... and knowing I can produce better than a significant percentage of roasted beans which are being sold in Australia..... that is satisfaction enough!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                Well said Robin, Im sure all of us Coffeesnobs are striving to improve our roasting skills and producing the best espresso that we possibly can. Im savouring a PNG Sigri CS8/9 3 days p/roast done in plunger while typing this reply.................bellisimo!!!

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                • #23
                  Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                  Originally posted by JavaB link=1230245340/20#20 date=1230296403
                  Im not dissimilar to you in most regards..... BUT if you find a dedicated and motivated person in any of the areas you mention they can - and will - do the job better. They have learnt heaps about their field of endeavour.... and are still learning all the time and getting better... and there is zero chance either you or I could do the job better than they can now (unless we live long enough after they have died so we can develop the same skill level!)
                  Ah yes that is absolutely right and I was going to write something along those lines at the time but I was beginning to think I was sounding like a big enough tosser without going on about it  ;D I believe there are exceptions however that I touched on, in terms of the constraints. At the end of the day those people are running a business and as such the constraints MAY negatively affect the final product. Individuals generally have a whole different set of constraints. Typically time features pretty big in the commercial list, whereas expense is unremarkably prominent on an individuals list. Anyone who has ever formally learnt a trade will, I expect, confirm that if you did things the way as taught in trade school youd be broke in a week! I believe its often that different set of constraints that determines whether an individual can potentially exceed what is commercially available or alternatively will never reach it.

                  KK, its not what Im using now that really interests me, Ive only had a play around once. As I mentioned, its the realistic potential for home roasting that Im interested in; is it potentially possible to at least meet, or preferably exceed, the results of a good commercial roaster at home. Of course whats "realistic" to one person may be totally unrealistic to another due to those pesky constraints. If the general consensus was "sure its possible, just go out and get yourself a $xxxxx sample roaster, apprentice yourself for 4 years, umm oh you will need 3 phase power, dedicated area ...." well sorry thats not realistic in my book. On the other hand, lets say a Hottop could match a commercial roaster, well thats realistic (maybe). Same for the skill set.

                  TG Im afraid I dont really understand what you mean  :-? I have had some truly superb coffee from outlets over the years and, as far as I recall, not one of them roasted their own. Im not sure I agree that roasting yourself .... no wait that the entertainment. ... roasting BEANS yourself is a necessity to produce truly first class espresso. First class beans from an expert roaster will STILL potentially produce better espresso than 99% of cafes, sans the intrinsic satisfaction of saying "I roasted these beans myself"

                  Pete

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                  • #24
                    Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                    Originally posted by PeteF link=1230245340/20#22 date=1230332031
                    TG Im afraid I dont really understand what you mean  :-? I have had some truly superb coffee from outlets over the years and, as far as I recall, not one of them roasted their own. Im not sure I agree that roasting yourself .... no wait that the entertainment. ... roasting BEANS yourself is a necessity to produce truly first class espresso. First class beans from an expert roaster will STILL potentially produce better espresso than 99% of cafes, sans the intrinsic satisfaction of saying "I roasted these beans myself"

                    Pete
                    Ive had some good coffees too but those outlets are few and far between.
                    What I was trying to say is that most people dont know what good coffee tastes like because of that rarity.
                    They wouldnt be looking for an expert roaster as they would be at the mercy of the produce of those retail outlets. Thats all they are used to.

                    Remember.....youre a coffee snob now; you have a different perspective to the bulk of the population.

                    I have a theory that people put sugar in coffee to overcome the taste of bad coffee.
                    No one I make coffee for uses sugar in my coffee; they still use sugar elsewhere.

                    How many people do you know that put sugar in their coffee?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                      Ha ha, mate Ive been a coffee snob for a while now, just not around here  

                      Oh theres no doubt people put sugar in coffee to balance the bitterness. I generally do when Im out too. Indeed my "sugometer" is a very accurate guide to just how good or bad the coffee is! I never use sugar at home and always forget to put it out when people come over. Unfortunately I think many people just put it in from habit, and dont really think about what theyre doing.

                      As interest, Im having major battles with my machine at the moment, and its being stupidly finicky about the dosage Im feeding it. I have a feeling the gicleur I machined up is somewhat over-size, but thats another story. The point is, even with some serious channelling going on and not exactly "text book" pours (to say the least), the end result is STILL better than most commercial outlets. So one has to wonder what the heck THEY do to butcher it so badly, so regularly!

                      Anyway, thats all well and good but seriously off topic. What Im interested in is whether home roasting has the potential to add or merely subtracts from the end product in the cup as compared to good commercially roasted beans.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                        Just a couple of considerations...

                        Your local cafe will quite often be far more interested in whether they get a free machine, t-shirts, etc., than how good the coffee is that they buy. To make matters worse, they also have a very limited investment in staff training.

                        Of course, there are some cafes that are passionate about the quality of what they serve - they are often easy to identify by the length of the queues waiting to be served.

                        Home roasters are probably finiciky by nature, and no matter what their level of experience, have this community available as an incredible resource - not only to develop and refine their skills, but to start with what I consider a wonderful array of quality raw beans. I souce greens for my blends from wholesalers, because I need a constant and fairly consistent supply.

                        Though when it comes to my SO offerings, I have a personal scout who has a knack for finding the best greens available then offers them at very reasonable prices on a monthly basis. His name is Andy if you hadnt already guessed. No wonder then that many CS home roasters consider what they produce to be superior to store bought coffee. I know I may be over simplifying, but it just stands to reason that if you start with quality produce you have a far greater chance that the end result will also be better.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                          KK, its not what Im using now that really interests me, Ive only had a play around once. As I mentioned, its the realistic potential for home roasting that Im interested in; is it potentially possible to at least meet, or preferably exceed, the results of a good commercial roaster at home. Of course whats "realistic" to one person may be totally unrealistic to another due to those pesky constraints. If the general consensus was "sure its possible, just go out and get yourself a $xxxxx sample roaster, apprentice yourself for 4 years, umm oh you will need 3 phase power, dedicated area ...." well sorry thats not realistic in my book. On the other hand, lets say a Hottop could match a commercial roaster, well thats realistic (maybe). Same for the skill set.
                          The realistic potential of home roasting is YES it can be done and it can be done to a high standard

                          Here is proof
                          Re: Another Snob in the news...
                          http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1213341475

                          If home roasting was impossible or inferior to the commercial product then no one would do it

                          Yes you will have to learn but in reality it wont take a lot of roasts under your belt to arrive at a personal satisfaction level and beyond with time

                          My grandmother when alive used to roast her beans in a shallow pan much in the same way African tribes still do it now
                          Her coffee style was Greek/Turkish
                          She used a mortar and pestle to grind it to a powder

                          KK


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                          • #28
                            Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                            Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1230245340/20#26 date=1230348516
                            If home roasting was impossible or inferior to the commercial product then no one would do it
                            Well Im afraid I have to respectfully disagree with you there. There is a huge amount of intrinsic satisfaction people get from making something themselves, even though in many cases there is no doubt its inferior to a commercially produced example. Maybe "potato skin lamp shades" was a bit over the top, but a lot of "crafts" would never past muster if they were on the commercial market, yet people enjoy the process of making them. Even here, the overwhelming message I get is that the number one motivator is the satisfaction in roasting at home.

                            The ability to get into smaller lots, too small to be of commercial interest, I can imagine would be a great point I hadnt thought of. Agree, commercially most cafes are purely price driven or have the product dictated to them by the lease/contract theyre operating under.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                              . On the other hand, lets say a Hottop could match a commercial roaster, well thats realistic (maybe). Same for the skill set.
                              There is more to the comparative value of home roasting than just, "Can it be better than a commercial roaster?" Can a home roaster exceed the product of the better commercial roaster/ There is no one answer to that. the reason is that coffee quality is subjective. I have had a few commercial roasts and blends that exceeded what I could accomplish at home, but I have had more that do not. Mostly the reason is that I have developed a blend that works for me-- it creates a flavor that I like, and I can do it repeatedly. When I grow a bit tired of it, I just adjust the blend a bit.

                              The other benefit is that you get fresh coffee all the time. Just keep a supply of green on hand. Fresh counts for a lot!

                              In regards to the process, it is not all that difficult (depending on the appliance you choose). While thee are enough nuances to keep you busy reading and experimenting for a lifetime, the basics are quite easy to learn. You will get good at it in a short time, but it takes a lifetime to master. Much like driving- No matter how well you learn to drift a corner, Lewis Hamilton probably has nothing to worry about from you.

                              I have only used two home roasters that I would say compare to commercial roaster output-- the Hottop (a company I work with), and the Genecafe. I know for a fact that a number of small growers and small roastaries use the Hottop KN-8828B as a sample roaster because it is quite affordable compared to the sample roasters generally used by the industry. The first ever 100% Kona roasted espresso blend was developed on a Hottop. That all says a lot about the level of control that the Hottop supplies the user.

                              The Genecafe is a good appliance, but it lacks efficient cooling and has no memory, so you have to manually control every roast at every step of the way.

                              SO... unless you have a local roaster that knows how to roast a quality coffee, and you pass by there often enough to pick up a fresh supply once every en days or so, take the next step to quality coffee at home and learn to roast. I started just over 8 years ago and have not regretted it.

                              DISCLAIMER: While I work as an independent contractor for Hottop (among other companies) I do not benefit from sales of the roasters.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                                Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1230245340/20#26 date=1230348516

                                If home roasting was impossible or inferior to the commercial product then no one would do it
                                Groan. Im about to set myself up to get flamed (again)....I know less than a handful of home roasters who do a superb job. The other samples Ive seen, been offered, and tasted, have well and truly been inferior.

                                If you think you make a better lasagne than me, thats great. Theres not much point in arguing, "yours is better than mine". Just go ahead and enjoy it.

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