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Just how good is home roasting?

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  • #31
    Re: Just how good is home roasting?

    Fair points Den...

    The quality of the end result is entirely within the domain of the person in control (leaving out the quality of the equipment being used) and the particular mindset of the individual. Some of us are never satisfied with the status quo, always striving to improve on what has gone before, others are quite happy to call it quits at some level that makes em happy. It doesnt really matter though, so long as you are gaining something positive from your endeavours.

    For what its worth, Ive always been something of a perfectionist (albeit a pragmatic one in more recent times); as far back as I can remember. As a result, with my coffee roasting, if a roast batch doesnt turn out exactly as planned then I have to know why, make adjustments to my process and then try again. Ultimately, I achieve something that is as close to my goals as I can get and that then becomes a benchmark for future roasts of that particular bean/crop/blend. This is probably one of the main reasons I really enjoy home-roasting coffee so much, as the desired goal is very often a moving target; sometimes a fast one and it is this that makes it so enjoyable for me. Not because it is easy, but because it requires significant concentrated effort on my part. At the end of the process though, a great coffee brew in the cup makes it all worth while and that is what were all aiming for in the end... To a lesser or greater degree

    Mal.

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    • #32
      Re: Just how good is home roasting?

      Originally posted by cuppacoffee link=1230245340/20#29 date=1230350547
      Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1230245340/20#26 date=1230348516

      If home roasting was impossible or inferior to the commercial product then no one would do it
      Groan.  Im about to set myself up to get flamed (again)....I know less than a handful of home roasters who do a superb job.  The other samples Ive seen, been offered, and tasted, have well and truly been inferior.

      If you think you make a better lasagne than me, thats great.  Theres not much point in arguing, "yours is better than mine".  Just go ahead and enjoy it.
      See my signature. I have absolutely no doubt that my home roasts are not as good as commercial stuff.
      But they are way better than the crap from the supermarket.
      So that sits them in a nice middle ground, and for around $13 kg delivered its bloody good value!

      Then theres the freshness issue. I know exactly how fresh my home roasts are and generally roast about 2 cups of beans ( dunno the weight as I have no accurate scales) every 5 or 6 days.

      I also get great satisfaction out of roasting my own coffee. I love the process.

      Oh and I dont make lasagne, but I do make the worlds best spag bolognese    

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      • #33
        Re: Just how good is home roasting?

        No flame wars here Good smaller volume roasters are a lot different to roasters turning out the same blend by the ton week after week then letting it sit on a shelf until it sells.

        I like the variation and playing with roast variables and the satisfaction of DIY. Cost is also a factor, payback of even a Hottop/Gene is about 1-2 years at even small quantities. Freshness is a major factor as the cost of postage from a good roaster on 1/2kg lots makes it a bit exepensive for every week.

        Currently I am still buying about 1/4 of my beans as Brown to compare against what I am roasting also nice to try a different bean or blend. In the main I am happy with my home roasts as a major improvement over what I was drinking (stupormarket swill) but still lots of room for improvement.

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        • #34
          Re: Just how good is home roasting?

          Originally posted by cuppacoffee link=1230245340/20#25 date=1230340916

          Though when it comes to my SO offerings, I have a personal scout who has a knack for finding the best greens available then offers them at very reasonable prices on a monthly basis.  His name is Andy if you hadnt already guessed.  No wonder then that many CS home roasters consider what they produce to be superior to store bought coffee.  I know I may be over simplifying, but it just stands to reason that if you start with quality produce you have a far greater chance that the end result will also be better.
          I think Dennis has "hit the nail on the head" with that statement!

          Pretty much the only beans I roast and consume are SO..... and yes, we have an extraordinary range of exceptional quality beans available through CS.

          Some time ago we were cupping a PNG SO at 5 Senses..... and it was spectacular! The Master Roaster there commented how superb it was - and he was dead right. His problem was that he could only get it in small quantities - certainly not enough to sell commercially as a SO or to even blend with other beans for commercial sale.

          So commercial roasters, even the best, are limited to what is available in commercial quantities..... and the quality must also be consistent.

          Home roasters (who are fortunate enough to have a supply like CS green....) can have access to these unique high quality (but low volume) beans.... and even if we can only obtain 80% of the flavour profile a high quality commercial roaster could get..... even at 80% those beans can be amazing! And Commercial roasters generally wont bother with them as there isnt enough to incorporate into their blends....

          So there is far more to home roasting than trying to "better" or even "equal" the pros..... we have an opportunity to experiment with a far wider range of bean varieties..... and that, in itself, is very rewarding (both in terms of personal satisfaction and also "whats in the cup")

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          • #35
            Re: Just how good is home roasting?

            For me, roasting my own is worth it because I can use excellent quality beans that match my individual tastes exactly, and roast them to the degree I prefer, thereby satisfying my needs more closely than with "over-the-counter" products.

            As JavaB points out, the commercial offerings are subject to different limitations and goals, relating to quantity, consistency, and broad appeal. Its a bit like comparing apples with oranges - the commercial roasters "excellent" orange might be better than my "very good" home-made apple, but if I prefer apples to oranges, and the roasters dont sell apples, then making my own apples is worthwhile.

            My tastes vary all the time, but I generally prefer single origins, particularly Ethiopians, and like a lighter roast than what most commercial roasters sell. If a good commercial roaster roasted the same batch of beans as me, to suit my tastes, Ive no doubt they could do a better job ... but they dont usually roast exactly what I would roast. If I want a 3 day old Sidamo Guji roasted slowly as a single origin to the first snaps of SC, and perhaps blended with a 9 day old version of the same, I need to do it myself. Likewise, a 14-21 day old Monsooned Malabar roasted to my idea of perfection isnt something Ive ever seen for sale.

            Having said that, I sometimes buy a blend from one of the great roasters we are blessed with here in Perth, and I thoroughly enjoy them. But then I return to my custom-made home roasts, where I am free to cater just to my own idiosyncracies and tastes. It depends on what floats your boat, and how specific your tastes are.

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            • #36
              Re: Just how good is home roasting?

              Great post oily, I think you have summed up why a big proportion of home roasters do so.
              Like you I dont like overdone beans and usually pull my roasts just before/on/or just after second crack depending on bean type.
              Ive got good profiles of my favourite beans and can reliably repeat those roasts as required.

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              • #37
                Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                It is me John, I live in America. I got started home roasting after a specialty roaster burned me for over $100.00 (by burning the coffee and not taking responsibilty). I did not even drink coffee at that time, I got it for my wife. After trying home roasting, I now drink coffee. I home roasted in an oven, in a hot air popper, I modified a stir crazy turbo oven, I discovered, thanks to coffee snobs, the coretto. Thanks. There may be hundreds of small batch commercial roasters in Australia. Apparantly not so in the States. St**** is popular here with the most horrible coffee I have ever drank. I may not be able to compete with every commercial roaster, but not every commercial roaster is the same. My coffee is excellent. Even in the crappy 150"F coffee maker atr work it tastes better. Try home roasting. It is a bargain. I am better now than when I started. Am I going to put anyone out of business? No. And we also have are Sweet Marias with the best price/value/selection For me here in America. Did not mean to start any he said/she said discussions. But thanks for the coretto idea and direction. The damn thing works great. John

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                • #38
                  Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                  One thing that I think is worth pointing out to those justifying home roasting is that I often read statements along the lines of "roasted coffee costs me $40/kg, green its $20/kg therefore home roasting is half the cost!" Well, not exactly. The green beans lose a significant amount of weight when roasted (20-30%???, I just measured 20% on some just roasted) so you cant directly compare the two prices/weights. The other thing is, even DIY roasting equipment is rarely completely free. It seems most, if not all, roasting pushes equipment to, or often beyond its design limits and that has an affect on the equipments life span. Not bagging the process just trying to keep it in perspective.

                  Pete

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                  • #39
                    Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                    Hi Pete
                    I agree you need to add the additional cost of roasting equipment etc to get a true indication of the cost of home roasting but even when i do this i still save a great deal of money.

                    When i can purchase green beans from a local roaster for $8.50/KG and loose 16% in roasting it still equates to about $10.00/kg green for the full roasted equivalent.

                    Yes my roasting equipment all up has probably cost about $250 (an excessive figure but an estimate on the high side) but over the last two years have consistently been roasting about 1KG of green each week. To cost this at the quoted rate of of $40/kg would give a total figure of $3,600 approx to purchase the equivalent in pre roasted.

                    I have used the same equipment for the last two years and i suspect it will run easily for the next two years as well.

                    I have spent know where near this on equipment or green beans, so on costs alone its a huge reason to home roast even before you add the benefits of fresh beans on tap, acheivements in roasting, etc. etc.

                    For me its in perspective.

                    Mal

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                    • #40
                      Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                      ...very good. Yet to have a better coffee than that which I roast at home and run through the Mazzer/Faema combo. I try to keep an open mind. Its not just me either, its my family and friends who regularly go to very good shops including site sponsors. I am just being honest about this even if it sounds a tad egotistical.

                      Cheers

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                      • #41
                        Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                        Pete 20-30% is excessive.
                        Can be as low as 13%.
                        Lately, using a profile from Mal Ive managed to get from my average of 16.4% down to 15%.

                        I have 3 BMs which cost me $10 for one and $0 for each of the other two.

                        My main costs have been heat guns and beans.

                        I recently picked up a couple of the Aldi HGs for $20 each as I had one previously and Im used to controlling it, as well as my mounting setup being very compatible with the gun shape.

                        To me the beans are the cheapest part of the equation and as bolb said, when factoring the equipment cost over the long term, the overall cost savings are increased.

                        Im out of work at the moment but at my last place of employment I roasted a little for some of the guys and what they paid me for the occasional bag, let me roast and drink my coffee for free.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                          As you guys may have figured by now, I am playing Devils advocate with this a bit. Nevertheless I very often read of people simply comparing the cost of roasted/green and dividing by 2, and just thought Id point out that so often we lose track of "oh just a bit here, and a switch there". Anyone who has done any house renovations knows exactly what Im talking about

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                          • #43
                            Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                            Understood Pete.
                            Sometimes we need to restate the bleedin obvious for the benefit of newbs.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                              Why do people never factor in the cost of their time when home roasting?

                              I suppose that its implicit that regular roasters enjoy it, but if you are trying to use cost to sway someone who doesnt home roast, I dont think that you can make that assumption.  Even valuing my time at the majestic rates that I commanded working part time as a uni student, home roasting works out to be more expensive than buying brown.  The equation tips if a roastery isnt located anywhere convenient for you, but remember that the maximum that you should allow for time to pick up roasted coffee is the cost of postage ... which doesnt actually work out to be that much if you buy two lots at once and freeze one.

                              Similarly, why dont people make more of an allowance for the cost of mistakes?

                              It takes a fair bit of roasting to work out how to produce something decent.  If you get great results on your first roast, you are either very lucky or your standards are lower than they ought to be.

                              There are a lot of good arguments for home roasting, but I dont think that cost is really a tenable argument to someone who regards roasting as a chore.  (And if you are one of the legions of members of this web page who love the zen of roasting, why stop at home roasting; why not pay a pro roaster for the pleasure of taking their 22kg probat for a spin? ;P)

                              Ill make one quick and unrelated point on the subject - I think that home roasting is a much more attractive proposition for people making brewed coffee than for people making espresso.  Its a fair generalisation to say that most Australian roasters roast everything for espresso and it can be challenging to find truly excellent roasts for brewed coffee.  That is starting to change and I am very grateful.  Theres a lot to be said for starting to roast coffee only for french press, syphon, etc; I think that you probably have more margin for error than roasting for espresso and the results will probably compare more favourably to what you can buy in shops purely because you will stop the roast at a level that is more suited for your intended brewing method.  Roasting for brewed coffee also probably makes it easier to develop an appreciation for the diversity of single origins, seeing as the brewing methods are less influential on the finished cup than espresso and the roast is not taken to a level where roast flavours begin to dominate origin flavours.  Newbies who insist on learning to home roast and make espresso at the same time are doomed to fail.  But why not learn to roast for brewed coffee whilst teaching yourself espresso using a decent commercial blend?

                              Cheers,

                              Luca

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                              • #45
                                Re: Just how good is home roasting?

                                Luca - I learned to roast at home and to make espresso at the same time - although I also used good local roasted coffee every so often and from various places for a while to make sure I had a handle on things - so point taken. Didnt take long to wince when handing over cash for roasted beans...

                                Cheers

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