Re: Just how good is home roasting?
So, what did they do with the other 0.5 shot if they served you 1.5 shots?
Ive been home roasting for a year and a half now, first with a popper in the colder months but moved onto the corretto as it started getting warm towards the summer. Prior to home roasting I was buying veneziano beans and they were GREAT! They were so good that my first few roasts tasted flat in comparison. I had to wean off the Veneziano beans and persisted with home roasting to eventually start enjoying my own roasts. I only really drink lattes, by the way.
Id say when done reasonably well, home roasts coffee are a lot better than the average cafe coffee which serves stale beans. In milk drinks, the differences are as follows: When I take the first sip of a typical cafe latte, the first bit isnt too bad. Id attribute that to the crema and milk foam providing the flavours, but as you get through the rest pf the cup, it tastes more and more like coffee flavoured milk. With fresh beans though, the nice flavours that you get at the start is maintained consistently right through the whole cup.
Recently, I dropped by Veneziano again and bought a couple of lattes. I only had one reaction when I tasted it.... WOW!! Perhaps its not just the professionally roasted beans, but also the quality of the grind and brewed on an LM FB80 by a very well trained barista as compared to one made from a Rocky on a prosumer HX, but the differences were astounding. Im still home roasting though, but if I ever start getting big headed about my roasting, Ill take a trip down to Veneziano to bring me down back to earth!
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Just how good is home roasting?
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
I think youve just qualified ozscotts statement a bit more.
I agree with what you said about milk based drinks, as my regular is a flat white.
I tried a new local place yesterday and confused the poor waitress because Id ordered both an espresso and a flat white (from someone else) and she came to serve me and couldnt see who the second one was for.
Both turned out to be quite nice (I dont usually drink espresso).
After Id finished I asked if both drinks were made with different beans and the answer was "yes".
They gave me one blend for the espresso and another specifically for the flat white.
Now back to your comment about the ingredients being complimentary...they served my flat white in a 200ml cup (I know because they were almost identical to those I use at home) so I asked if theyd used a double shot.
I had been expecting the usual size as Id spotted some tulip shaped cups on the machine.
The girl told me shed used 1.5 shots in my coffee because of the size of the cup.
So they did think about the complimentary aspect and it came through in the finished product.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
I know you went on to qualify the statement somewhat but as it reads Im not sure I agree with this. SorryOriginally posted by 72676E7E7269691D0 link=1230245340/58#58 date=1231626443The fact is that an excellent espresso will make an excellent flat white etc provided that the milk is textured properly. At the end of the day its the espresso doing the work ...
Much of this is simply personal taste, theres no "right" or "wrong" but one thing that bugs me a bit is going to, sometimes espresso outlets with an extremely high reputation, and finding they serve milk based drinks where the espresso totally overpowers the drink. Maybe as if theyre somewhat arrogant and saying "hey look at how great our espressos are". Theres one outlet I go to who even use double shots in a 160 ml latte as normal routine!
A good chef or anyone whos interested in cooking knows that a great dish is where each ingredient compliments the others, and no one ingredient overpowers the dish. Personally I approach a latte/cap/fw like this, and consider there are only 3 ingredients in it. The water is somewhat outside our control (esp if plumbed), so that leaves just the espresso (ie includes the water by default) and the milk. Amongst the things that go into making a great latte for me is where I can clearly taste the quality of the milk being used, instead I so often feel like Ive been punched in the mouth by espresso coloured by a bit of milk (and I do drink espresso too btw, but if thats what I want Ill order that).
With that in mind there a clearly blends better suited to either drinking straight shots or with milk. Even if I hate the term "cut through the milk", thinking like that will, in my opinion never produce a truly great drink. There are however blends that compliment the milk well
Just my 2c worth.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
In only three corretto roasts I have produced excellent results. Admittedly, there has been quite a bit of reading coffeesnobs forums in the lead up. I previously bought brown beans from a respected roaster, and yes his is superior to mine...but not by that much at all. I was very pleasantly surprised.
I can guarantee mine is far superior than any of the 4 month old beans sitting on my local supermarket shelf! Invite some friends around who buy packet coffee from the supermarket and they will think you are the coffee God.
As far as matching my previous supplier. He has 10 000 times the coffee knowledge of me. He has 10 times more sensitivity to his palate than me. He has 40 years of coffee experience over me. So, I dont really see it happening. But then again, my roasts are not very inferior to his. I could not say his is twice as good, not nearly. His is noticeably better, but mine is really good too - and yes even as a beginner.
I drink both espresso shots and milk drinks. Milk in the morning heading into espresso shots in the arvo. It is fine as straight espresso. I agree with the above that milk drinks do not have to be inferior. Just because you can drown a bad shot in milk and still drink it doesnt mean all milk drinks are a bad shot drowned in milk.
Travis.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
What they both just said.
And to directly answer your question...yes there is enough consistency in corretto roasting.
I mostly drink flat whites and my wife likes the occasional long black.
ATM Im only using SOs so she gets whatever Im currently using.
Every so often Ill try an espresso as a check.
Some of those espressos are mine and some are from professionals who I strive to equal.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Col - I for one cannot see why a milk coffee comparo is less accurate than an espresso comparo. For example when I go to good cafes and a competent barista makes a skim flat white in a traditional size cup, then I return home and make the same but from my beans on my equipment I get to have a good comparo. The fact is that an excellent espresso will make an excellent flat white etc provided that the milk is textured properly. At the end of the day its the espresso doing the work, so yes if you have a great milk coffee from corretto home roasting then you will have a fine shot of espresso...of course you can roast milder for straight espresso drinking and you can roast for more bite to use the beans in milk drinks to cut through the milk, but for me I like milder milk coffees anyway, so I generally roast so that if I choose an espresso or long black for example, as I do from time to time, I am happy with the result.
Cheers
PS. There are people that prefer milk over espresso straight and espresso straight over milk, but dont let anyone convince you that you have to drink espresso neat all the time to enjoy coffee if you like milk coffees...thats a substrata of snobbery that would be inappropriate amongst coffee lovers.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Most definitely Col, I think most home roasters would drink predominantly single origin and get into blending as they gain more experience and knowledge.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
OK - so perhaps the wrong thread for asking the question - but out of those home roasting, who drinks straight espresso verses milk drinks?
Is there enough consistency in (say) a corretto to produce a bean that will work well as a straight shot?
Cheers,
Col.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Well Greg, the corretto I built was to get away from holding the HG over the SS bowl whilst stirring with the other hand.
I thought that was the idea.
Until I bought a replacement Aldi HG the other day I have been holding my adjustable Bosch by hand as my original setup suits the Aldi Taurus.
I hadnt gotten around (or more correctly, my son with his new welder) to rigging up a mount for the Bosch.
Agreed the holding by hand for 20 minutes isnt fun.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
The enjoyment side of roasting is a hard one to appreciate before youve done it, but for me it now ranks highly in my reasons to roast. This is especially so if your setup allows you to sit back and enjoy the process rather than having to hold the heat-gun or stir the dog-bowl or crank the handle on the generator or whatever! The greatest frustration with my corretto (after it cutting out near SC!) was having to hold the heat gun at the right position for 20 minutes. If Id rigged up a tripod stand Im sure there would have been more of the sit back and enjoy that I currently enjoy with the Hottop.
I guess it all comes down to what individuals see as important, which is why theres rarely one solution that suits everyone.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Yes I enjoy it and I suppose this thread will now contribute to fully explaining to newbs that sometimes you cant put a value on your time.Originally posted by luca link=1230245340/40#43 date=1231053067Why do people never factor in the cost of their time when home roasting?
I suppose that its implicit that regular roasters enjoy it, but if you are trying to use cost to sway someone who doesnt home roast, I dont think that you can make that assumption. Even valuing my time at the majestic rates that I commanded working part time as a uni student, home roasting works out to be more expensive than buying brown. The equation tips if a roastery isnt located anywhere convenient for you, but remember that the maximum that you should allow for time to pick up roasted coffee is the cost of postage ... which doesnt actually work out to be that much if you buy two lots at once and freeze one.
When Im working I get paid a smidge more than a student and if $/hr were a factor Id never roast.
I started with a popper and each roast was a learning excercise.Originally posted by luca link=1230245340/40#43 date=1231053067Similarly, why dont people make more of an allowance for the cost of mistakes?
It takes a fair bit of roasting to work out how to produce something decent. If you get great results on your first roast, you are either very lucky or your standards are lower than they ought to be.
All results were drinkable even if they werent up to my latest results.
I wasnt lucky on my early roasts and I didnt have low standards.
I read a lot and put it into practise with my usual anal focus.
I learned the same way...almost.Originally posted by ozscott link=1230245340/40#44 date=1231053493Luca - I learned to roast at home and to make espresso at the same time - although I also used good local roasted coffee every so often and from various places for a while to make sure I had a handle on things - so point taken. Didnt take long to wince when handing over cash for roasted beans...
I started learning to make espresso using a good roasters blend and when I started roasting I didnt chop and change beans.
While I have tried a few others beans over the last two years my mainstay has been the PNG Kimel.
I think the 60kg Ive roasted so far have taught me a lot about both roasting and good espresso.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Probably 40-50% of my roasts are blends these days Oz, and its usually because of the reasons that Luca mentioned above that I blend at all. Also like you, I buy brown beans from respected Roasters every now and then, just to make sure Im not going off my game or just because I havent been able to roast enough to satisfy demand, due to bad weather or some other reason.Originally posted by ozscott link=1230245340/40#49 date=1231059310Gday Mal. Its interesting that you mention blending. I am a long way behind you mate, and have only been doing single origin beans...
I wasnt thinking that mate; knew where you were coming from......Originally posted by ozscott link=1230245340/40#49 date=1231059310I should elaborate from my post above, that its not just friends (eg p_issing in my pocket) that comment about the coffee however - I have made single origin coffees for complete strangers from short blacks to lates and the comments are always the same.
Mal.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Time used is not that important to my home roasting. Roasting time is Beer and or chill out Time ;D Cost Saving is a bonus
Satisfaction doesnt have a price but it certainly takes care of the time factor as well.
The Hottop option works easily as the first 10-12 minutes of the roast doesnt really need watching so a few weeds can be pulled or add a bit of water to the garden or sit in a chair and have a beer or two with some mates around. The old wooden spoon and heatgun while it worked was a pain as I would have needed a straw for the beer
Even with the Hottop which is simple to run I am still buying Brown Blends for maybe 20% of the roasts partly to compare as I have been starting to play with blending my own (results soso at this stage). Interested to see if ther open source blend thread gets a bite or two.
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Given that i am a salaried worker and work anywhere from 45hrs to 60hrs a week but still get paid the same with no overtime or time in lieu, how does home roasting require a $$ value for my time?
Yes i could work more hours for my employer rather than roast but to no more monetary gain.
I think you will find for those who home roast, that the value of their time spent roasting is irrelevant and encompases more of the altruistic values in life.
Mal
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Re: Just how good is home roasting?
Gday Mal. Its interesting that you mention blending. I am a long way behind you mate, and have only been doing single origin beans...but even those are smoother and nicer than blends that I have tried at very reputable coffee houses in Brisbane. At some stage I would like to get into blending, but just love good single origin coffees, and have not got the blending skill yet.
I should elaborate from my post above, that its not just friends (eg p_issing in my pocket) that comment about the coffee however - I have made single origin coffees for complete strangers from short blacks to lates and the comments are always the same. I am far from the knowledge that someone like Mal has, so my point is that if I can produce consistent cups of this quality, imagine what you can do with many years of experience and honing!
Cheers
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