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  • Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    As a newbie roaster who has just scored 5kg of PNG Wahgi, Im hoping some experienced Gene owners can advise optimum settings and times for this bean. I still struggle to hear 2nd crack, so settings and times will be much appreciated to speed the learning curve

    cheers

    argon

  • #2
    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

    Yes second crack is very hard to hear, hold you ear over the chaff collector if you need too then wash your hair if you dont want your pillow to smell like coffee smoke.

    The GeneCafe is sensitive to bean mass and amibient conditions so its probbably pointless giving you a specific profile for a PNG. However it is a relatively easy bean to roast and get good results with.

    When your starting out 250gm at 225c for 18-19 minutes is pretty safe and should be ballpark second crack. Dont take my word for it though sometimes things can happen faster.

    I would suggest that in the gene cafe for most coffees its safe and often a good think to start the cooling cycle before second crack.  Once you start hearing second crack your going to get a darkish tasting roast.
    There are a few signs to look for that your going to hit second crack soon. These might include an increase in smoke, the smell of the smoke changing from a toasty coffee smell to a more sour burnt toffee/coffee smell. Visually the beans will go from having a mottled uneven surface to a smooth almost glossy appearance.

    Im not taking any responsibility if it catches fire, but If your new to roasting I recomend sacrificing a batch and roasting just a little bit darker then you think you should or untill you see some oil on some of the beans. This should give you a complete idea of the various different stages of a roast.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

      Hi

      Here is data from my Gene roast of this bean.

      Date: 2009-01-06, temp: 230, total time: 19.5
      quantity: 250 gms, ambient temp: 28C
      FC at 13.5 mins, Clear. Rolling at 14.5 mins.
      SC at 19 mins, Faint SC. Rolling at 19.5.
      temps: 0 60, 5.0 200, 13.5 230, 19.0 230, 19.5 230

      2009-03-00, temp: 235, total time: 18.5
      quantity: 250 gms, ambient temp: 25C
      FC: 14.5, Isolated pops. Turn down to 228C at 15mins.
      Rolling at 15.5 mins. Loud.
      Ended at 18.5 just before SC as dark enough.
      temps: 0 60, 5.0 200, 8.0 213, 10.0 220, 14.0 230, 15.0 228, 16.0 228, 18.5 228

      The temps are the time(mins) temp(C), etc.

      Mike

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      • #4
        Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

        Tx guys - this will make a great starting pt - do you cool in machine or external?

        argon

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

          I cooled in the machine for 2 years, so its fine if you find it easier. Ive recently started cooling externally but I havnt really experimented enough to say definitively if I think its worthwhile.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

            My usual cooling technique is to use the "fast cool" (press the
            button twice in quick succession for a cooling cycle that stops
            at 100C). I let this go until about 150C, by which time most of
            the chaff has been cleared out, then  E stop and finish in an
            exernal cooler. The drum goes back in the Gene to finish
            cooling at normal rate.

            But if the roast looks / smells / sounds as if it has gone faster
            than I wanted, beans go into the external cooler immediately.

            The one and only test I ever did didnt show much either way.
            Not to say that proper testing wouldnt find differences though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

              Hi

              I cool in the machine.
              The variation of my shots from my espresso technique far exceeds any difference in my roaster cooling method :-)
              Besides, allowing the Gene to cool to 60C before the fan stops is probably better for the Gene in the long run.

              Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                Thanks for advice - I ran 2 batches tonight, basically following speleomikes profile - My temperature rise much more quickly. 1st crack was around 12:15 - I heard what i think were cracks around 19:00min at which time i ended the roasts. Is the 6 to 7 min between start of 1st crack to start of 2nd crack sound right?? Beans look OK

                thanks again

                argon

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                  That sounds pretty good to me, I usually aim for numbers in that ballpark for the tastes I enjoy.

                  Let us know how you enjoy your shots after a few days resting.

                  Greg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                    First time GC user and have received my first batch of BB green beans! The Wahgi AA is the second bean I have tried (after the Kenya AA that came with the machine). I have noticed that there is very little chaff and even less - as in no - smoke. Is this how things should be?? My first couple of roasts with the Wahgi were not that great, in looks - mottled and uneven - nor taste - very thin flavour after 4 days. Roast 2 and 3 with this bean are too fresh to be using yet.
                    I hope this means something to someone - sorry am not quite upto to all the taste terminology yet!
                    thoughts and comments appreciated.............

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                      Originally posted by 222147717C7B7562100 link=1254033836/9#9 date=1254559572
                      First time GC user and have received my first batch of BB green beans! The Wahgi AA is the second bean I have tried (after the Kenya AA that came with the machine). I have noticed that there is very little chaff and even less - as in no - smoke. Is this how things should be?? My first couple of roasts with the Wahgi were not that great, in looks - mottled and uneven - nor taste - very thin flavour after 4 days. Roast 2 and 3 with this bean are too fresh to be using yet.
                      I hope this means something to someone - sorry am not quite upto to all the taste terminology yet!
                      thoughts and comments appreciated.............
                      I thought I would attach the roasting spreadsheet for anyone to comment on so anyone would have the info behind the roast. (I got the basic template from Avacuppa)





                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                        I dont own a Genecafe so Ill leave it to those who do to comment on your profile. I suggest what you have identified as FC and RFC just before cooling is more likely to be second crack but you seemed to have taken it a long way into it, if so. So you either have a fairly light roast or a quite dark one. You didnt hear any other cracks at around the 10 - 12 minute mark?

                        There are a number of videos on Youtube that might be useful??

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                          Hi Flynn
                          I am finding the cracks difficult to hear - particularly 1st crack. I suspect that you ar correct in that I am hearing second crack because the beans are gettting fairly dark. A big secret here but I have even tried using my stethoscope to see if I can pick them better - but sshh dont tell anyone.

                          I think it is all in the praticing (and running out to buy beans in an emergency!)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi

                            Hi rynnlic,

                            I find that the best way to hear the cracks is to get a ways away on the exhaust side of Gene. The cracks seem to travel better than the sounds of the machine itself.

                            My usual profile is to set the machine on 225°C for most beans and 220°C for Africans. I roast 250 gms for chaffy beans and Monsoon Malabar, and 300 gms for clean roasting beans.

                            I aim for first crack at 12 or 13 minutes in, adjusting the temperature for the next roast if required to get this timing. At first crack I drop the set temperature by 5°C to slow the ramp to second crack.

                            If I dont hear second crack (and some beans are very subtle) I stop when the colour is right. My aim is to finish six minutes or so after first crack starts, at a colour of CS 9 or 10. This is usually just at the start of second crack.

                            Of course differences in personal tastes, and individual thermostats make all this YMMV.

                            Good luck.

                            Greg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gene Cafe and PNG Wahgi


                              rynnlic, I had a look at your log and found something vaguely
                              similar in my notebook. Not Wahgi, but another PNG bean, Kimel
                              (which is actually close by geographically). Similar your roast no 2,
                              I had a 5:30 drying cycle at 165C, then set to 240C, which was reached
                              at 8:50. FC came at 12:00; my notes say "loud". Unlike your profile, I
                              then cut to 225C, and SC came about five minutes later. If I had left
                              it at 240C, as you did, I suspect SC would have come within 2.5 - 3
                              mins. Differences are that you didnt preheat, whereas I preheat at
                              250C for about ten minutes, and I used 250g to your 200g (which is a
                              bit tricky IME, this would probably give you a longer time to SC).
                              Both these factors would contribute to stretching out your times cf mine.

                              Anyway, going by that, and that your weight loss is only 14%, I
                              suspect that your roast 2 reached FC as noted and that you pulled it
                              about 75% of the way to SC. In which case, if you break some beans
                              open, you should find them somewhat lighter inside. If so, getting
                              a good espresso shot may be difficult. Id suggest to try a sort of
                              cupping: take 10g, grind very coarsely, boil some water, let it cool
                              off for about half a minute, pour over the grinds to a cup full, wait
                              four minutes, scoop the gunk off the top, and try the coffee out of a
                              soupspoon. Keep doing so for a few minutes (I go up to about twenty)
                              noting the flavours. Are you getting grassy overtones, a bit
                              "greenish", may be slightly sour? This would suggest the roast is not
                              developed enough. If you get mellower notes, cocoa-ish, sweeter, then
                              probably fine and should do a good espresso. The advantage of the
                              cupping technique is that it is quite revealing and you can do it
                              within a day or so of roasting, no need to wait several days.

                              If you are having trouble with the cracks, try this. Load 230g of
                              beans (230g is good because the Gene always works well at this dose,
                              if it is a chaffy bean it wont throw so much chaff as to impede
                              airflow and give anomalous sensor readings). Then set to 250C and let
                              it keep going. With this much heat going in, FC should be quite loud;
                              you should hear the "pops" clearly at the exit of the chaff collector
                              for 1 1/2 minutes or so. Then SC will follow as a fainter crackling
                              sound, but changes in colour and smell, and usually more smoke, should
                              give clues that it is happening. Then you will see oil on the beans,
                              they will get a lot darker, and youll hear the vigorous crackling of
                              rolling SC. You may not like the results (probably best as compost)
                              but youll experience all the stages. (Take care not to let it go too
                              far beyond the black and oily stage, this is a rather extreme roasting
                              "profile").

                              Comment

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