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  • Roasting - between 1C & 2C

    Hi,
    I am using a Behmor. Roast profile P1C, 110g typically how long will the first crack last ? I did a few roast and stop about 1 min into the 1C. I wanted to avoid going into 2C to maintain at about City. How long will the 1C last ?
    I tried with Brazil Cerrado & Santa Alina. Taste kind of bright, medium body. Should I go a bit further into 1C to get less bright coffee ? On the other hand i want to preserve some of the character of the coffee.

    Any advice ?

    thanks
    kh :P

  • #2
    Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

    All going well, with most beans, 1st crack should finish completely, then go silent for at least 2 minutes before second crack starts. Some beans its less, some beans its more (if using that profile). Ambient temperature affects this massively.

    You really should do a roast into second crack, take notes, and then try tasting it. This will allow you to firstly understand what the bean does right through roasting, and secondly, allow you to know what you gain/lose by going into second crack. Id say that "Brightness" is a result of it simply being underdone.

    I personally wouldnt consider stopping a roast at least until 1st crack is finished. A large amount of flavour development happens in the few minutes between 1st crack and 2nd crack.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

      I used to roast 30 seconds into second crack but now stop just before second crack.

      One restriction to my current profile was not knowing when second crack was about to occur.
      A temperature readout of the bean mass certainly helps but I finally worked out how to see the signs of second crack approaching.

      You have to learn how each bean behaves so youll know what happens when.
      This gives you fairly accurate approximations (allowing for ambient temp) so you can watch carefully as you get close.
      Take lots of notes so you can build up your own knowledge base for each bean.

      Ive noticed that before I can hear second crack theres another lot of smoke released.
      To me, under my spotlight, where I roast at night, it also seems to have a blue tinge.
      Not long after, second crack happens.
      So now I know and am prepared to stop or continue into second crack.


      P.S. I aim, on average, for about 6 minutes between first crack and second crack.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

        Hi,
        My preference with the Behmor is to use the P2 profile not P1 and adjust the weight of beans to get into 2C and desired roast level before the power ramps up in the last 20% of time. due to two things-
        1/ 1C and 2C can tend to run together with P1 and makes it hard to distinguish between
        2/ This extends the time between 1C and 2C allowing for better caramelisation of sugars and better depth of flavour
        My recommendation would be to cool the roast as soon as 2C starts and before the power ramps up

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

          Hi,
          thanks for all your advices. I tried profile P2B today, stop about 15 sec into the second crack. I will try it after another 48 hrs.

          I agree that the "brightness" is likely due to insufficient roasting.

          cheers

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

            Hi 93deg,

            Regarding roasting in general (i dont have a behmor), you want to hit first crack around 11:00 then dump at around 15:00 at 15 degrees above first crack temp. That is, below second crack temp and before second crack hits.

            It does come down to personal preference but i have found (and a lot of other roasters agree) that you start to lose varietal character beyond this point, and you are essentially replacing it with roast flavour if you roast into and beyond second crack. Some people like those flavours, but for high quality beans its not really necessary and you will lose of a lot of those lovely sweet flavours as the coffee becomes more ashy and cocoa-ey.

            If you like a sweet bean, with lots of flavour nuance, i typically would try first crack at 11:00 (195 degrees) then dump at 210 degrees 4 minutes later. This means you need to increase temp by only about 3 to 4 degrees per minute after first crack.

            You mentioned you stopped 1min into FC.... that is more like a filter roast and would be light, acidic and under developed (for espresso), but great for filter brew methods. So perhaps do not throw those beans away as they could actually make you quite a nice filter brew!

            Hope this helps!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                Hey 93,
                         Welcome to the Behmor adventure, i will second Coffee Blonde PS 2 setting is the way to go, also i would recommend starting out with trying to roasting single origins  - as it is much better if you understand how each different bean roasts; this will in turn makes blends easier to roast.

              My two cents anyway 

              DD

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                As others say above, P2 is really the only way to go.

                Are you cooling in behmor? Or using a bean cooler?
                It is much easier to get the beans at the roast level you want using a separate bean cooler.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                  Originally posted by 6455425B5A5D565B4D340 link=1300457535/7#7 date=1300777031
                  As others say above, P2 is really the only way to go.
                  That hasnt been my experience Pb.... :-?

                  Mostly use P3 and occasionally P4. P2 (with the batch size I use) is very hit and miss and a veritable lottery as to how the beans will turn out. Much prefer to store my beans in a 1-Way Valve Bag rather than toss em in the bin....

                  Mal.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                    Originally posted by 0825212D204C0 link=1300457535/8#8 date=1300779060
                    Mostly use P3 and occasionally P4. P2 (with the batch size I use) is very hit and miss and a veritable lottery as to how the beans will turn out. Much prefer to store my beans in a 1-Way Valve Bag rather than toss em in the bin.... Wink

                    Mal.
                    Well now you have me intrigued Mal. I am going to have to start playing with P3 then.

                    I have been having great success with P2 but needing to use fairly small batches. Whereas the one attempt I had at P3 was a miserable failure and led me straight back to P2.

                    Now the problem is not having any time at the moment, either to roast or make coffee at home. Im going to have to learn how to live on less sleep.

                    What do your batch sizes range between for P3, Mal? I realise there are many factors playing into things not being the same between roasters but at least I will have a ball park of where to begin. I also prefer the one-way valve bags to the bin.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                      Originally posted by 06372039383F34392F560 link=1300457535/9#9 date=1300869183
                      I have been having great success with P2 but needing to use fairly small batches. Whereas the one attempt I had at P3 was a miserable failure and led me straight back to P2.
                      Now, thats interesting... 8-)

                      When I was first trialling my Behmor, trying to get a handle on its performance characteristics, I also had excellent outcomes using P2 with small batches (100-125g). It has only become more difficult for me as I moved to the standard batch size I want to use consistently. Namely, 350g....

                      To date (touch wood), all batches roasted using P3 or P4 have turned out wonderfully in the cup. Always very sweet, lots of intrinsic complexity and wonderful lingering after-taste. I can see how the P2 profile is meant to work after successful outcomes with previously small batches but for me, it is just too difficult to reliably and repeatably produce excellence in the cup.

                      Using a batch size of 350g gives me plenty of scope to roast within the Behmors capability and ensure that each batch arrives at exactly where I want it.... Cant ask for more than that I reckon.... 8-)

                      Mal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                        Right well that tears it. I have always been a P2 man, but Ill have to try P3 for a bit and see what that brings me.

                        Ive always had variation in crack times, and after controlling weight, profile, and now a 15A lead, perhaps changing up the profile might help me out.

                        Thanks for the inspiration guys!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                          Mal, I try to use 350g as well. It fills the 250g valve bag well, and lasts me about a week. Ive been using P2 and finding that its difficult to distinguish between the end of C1 and the beginning of C2. They often cross, and I find myself guessing when to stop. As a result, my roasts are inconsistent [which is the reason I turned to home roasting in the first place]!

                          Ill give the P3 a crack over the weekend and see how it goes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                            Originally posted by 434C4056444343210 link=1300457535/12#12 date=1300936307
                            Ive been using P2 and finding that its difficult to distinguish between the end of C1 and the beginning of C2.
                            I also have trouble picking C2 and if P3 solves this it would be great
                            Originally posted by 65484C404D210 link=1300457535/10#10 date=1300887971
                            I also had excellent outcomes using P2 with small batches (100-125g).
                            I was initially running typically 115g but continued with P2 when I increased the roast size. Will try a P3

                            Some good notes and tips in this thread, many thanks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Roasting - between 1C & 2C

                              Thanks Mal,

                              Ill start experimenting with P3 starting with 350g.

                              Pb.

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