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Tipping/burning/burnt flavor no matter what

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  • Tipping/burning/burnt flavor no matter what

    Hey all. I'm having some real trouble with roasting. Everytime I roast, no matter what I do, I get burned flavors. I use a breville b250 and ozito variable gun like lots of other who seem to get better results than me, so im looking for some thoughts. After starting to get burned flavors after a few roasts, this is what I've tried to fix it:
    - Roasting lighter. I started listening hard for the first snap of second crack and pull the roast straight away so it doesn't go any further. Still burned taste. Then I started trying to pull just prior to 2nd crack, but then I just get a combination of burned and sour taste.
    - Progressively turn up heat. I will slowly turn the heat up on the ozito gun in small incrementd of 0 to 70% of first crack heat every 30 seconds for the first 3-4 minutes, and then turn it up to 100% of the heat I need to get to first crack overthr next few minutes to get 1st crack at around 10-12 minutes. I did this because people say too much heat early can cause tipping. This method didn't seem to help much.
    - A lid. This is to try and use less agressive heat and retain heat more to try to not over cook early. I have tried various lid methods from saucepan lid to home made moulded wood with thick foil to oven tray. None seem to make much difference.
    - Angle and position of HG. I've tried straight down in the middle of the pan over the paddle. I've tried in one corner straight down. I've tried in the corner and angled in direction of bean movement, both diagonally across pan and straight down one side. No difference.
    - Increase agitation. I installed another arm on the paddle to increase movement and reduce the amount of time beans sat in the corner not moving much. I think this may have helped slightly, but it would be somewhere between nil and extremely slight.
    - Having the gun closer to the bean mass and the temp lower. Didn't seem to make a difference.
    - Having the gun further away from the bean mass and the temp higher. Didn't seem to make any difference.

    No matter what I do, I just seem to get beans which appear darker than they should, taste more burned than they should, and have a darker centre than outside when broken in half. I just can't seem to get it and would desperately love some help!

  • #2
    hi James,

    How much do you roast at a time?

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    • #3
      Hi Chris

      Usually roast between 300-500g. Is there a specific weight that works best? I have had similar results from 250, 300, 400, 500 and 600g

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      • #4
        I assume you are dropping the temp at the start of first crack. You can get tipping from too fast a ramp to 2C

        If you don't already have one, think of getting a Digital Multi Meter to measure the temp at various stages

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        • #5
          Ok so it may not be the amount you are putting in if you have tried that and had the same results. However do you use a meter and prob to test the temp you are getting inside the corretto. If you are turning the gun up to 100% i assume you are turning it up to 600 degrees that itselg may be too hot. If you was you i would start the temp a bit hotter earlier and only get the gun to about 500. inside the roast on mine it converts too about 190-210 degrees

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          • #6
            Running a temperature probe is a great way of seeing what's going on at the bean... it's very hard on large roasts to know what you are doing wrong unless you can "see" the effects of your changes.

            I would also recommend grabbing the Peru Ceja or the Indian Elephant for a really easy bean to roast that works well though a range of roast depths. When you are getting good results with one of those then move onto other beans using your "known good" baseline.

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            • #7
              Thanks. When I said 100%, I meant 100% of the temp I need to get it to 1st crack which is about 1/2 to 2/3 of full power.
              I don't have a DM and I'm sure that will help, but I was just trying to not spend the $$$ on it if I didn't have to.

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              • #8
                Well i will be honest i bought at temp gauge from a place called jaycar, but after awhile I thought i need a easier way to monitor what i do so i purchased the one that Andy has for sale on here and have never looked back. Best investment into this roasting i have made so far.

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                • #9
                  You're roasting blind without a temperature probe, and the coffeesnob roasting software is so easy to use, you'd be crazy not to get one when roasting such large amounts of beans at a time. The Ozito heat gun is by no means a precision tool, so turning the temperature dial will not always give you the same heat setting.

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                  • #10
                    I use the ozito heat gun, always on "II" (high fan) and on full temp. No lid on coretto. I then adjust temp but adjusting height. I normally start with the tip around 1-2cm above the lip of the breadmaker, then increase to 4-5cm above around 1st crack. I pull at 2nd crack (sometimes leave a minute to get rolling, sometimes when the 1st bean hits 2nd) then I cool quickly from there to stop it dead using a blower vac chamber.

                    I have done about 15 roasts this way so far, and they taste, well, pretty good to an untrained palate. No tipping. No excessive burnt flavour, definitely a stronger/darker roast though, which we like.

                    I think that I have a long way to go in improving technique, however, I'm happy as is.

                    For what it's worth I don't think the adjustment does much on the ozito heat gun, setting "I" isn't hot at all, and turning the dial on "II" does change the temp but as others have said, it's hit and miss.

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                    • #11
                      Do you try your best to ensure all the chaff blows out of your coretto? Chaff burns very easily since its like paper and this can easily taint your roast. You need to at the very least ensure the chaff keeps moving around or else they easily ignite/burn if kept dorectly under the heat gun for too long. This could explain why agitation helped.

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                      • #12
                        Wifey said I can get a DMM so I'll grab one and let you all know if that makes a difference. I really hope it does!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jamespbeasley View Post
                          Wifey said I can get a DMM so I'll grab one and let you all know if that makes a difference. I really hope it does!
                          I'm sure it will.
                          The data logger will show the temp increase rate. If that is too high, it will lead to the burning/tipping you described. You'll find plenty of posts in the Tips, Tricks, Ideas that include charts of roasts they have done. These are only a starting point but you should be guided and not ruled by them. The thermodynamics of your roaster and your tastes are likely to be different so the roasting journey is about finding what works for you.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jamespbeasley View Post
                            Wifey said I can get a DMM so I'll grab one and let you all know if that makes a difference. I really hope it does!
                            Get the ones from Beanbay. It's reasonably priced and comes with all you need to get started. At the same time get some green beans to spread out the transport cost to make it a little more worthwhile
                            Then download the software into a laptop and you're on your way to great tasting roasts!

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                            • #15
                              James,

                              I have found and learnt that consistancy is one important key roasting, purchasing and using a data logger can only help you acheive consistancy with your roasting. I orignally bought a probe and temp gauge from an outside source, then finally bought the data logger from beanbay here, wishing I had have done that in the first place. It can only help you get better.

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