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  • #31
    Hi James,

    It can get really frustrating when you know something is wrong but don't know how to fix it........... I speak from experience!
    I have only used a Gene and now a commercial 5kg but looking at your graphs and pics would like to offer some thoughts.
    1. Don't get caught up with fixed ideas from what you read or what others with different gear/setups experience. Every roast situation is unique, find what works for you. Be more flexible and experiment.

    2. If you look at your last profile and the one supplied by Matt there are a couple of obvious differences. Both profiles are measuring from a cold start but if you take 50* as an actual start point for the roast then your profile is running approx 8 minutes to 1st C and Matt's 11.
    Even though your third profile looks better than the first two the approach is still quite aggressive. The tipping obvious in your photo will be coming from this aggressive early ramping where the germ end of the bean dries out faster than the rest and then over roasts towards the end of the cycle. The other factor involved with tipping will be the rate of agitation; if the beans are in the heat stream or contacting hot parts of your roaster for too long, tipping will occur. Scorching (different from tipping) later in the roast may also happen. The other difference is ratios; your time to 1st crack is approx half your total roast time (from50*) Matt's is more like two thirds to three quarters.

    3. Try and achieve a roast profile that is more radically different than the three you have posted to give you some broader parameters to tweak. Everything is a bit too same same at the moment. Try to shorten the time between 1st and 2nd crack as mentioned by Andy previously. Currently it's about 8 minutes, bring it back to 4 (6 at the most).

    4. A bit hard to tell from your pics so I might be wrong but if you remove some beans after first crack and well before second look for centreline charring. This comes from too much applied heat between bean drying (about 150*) and 1st C.

    5. Don't give up! I have thrown out a mountain of beans and with perseverance and sage advice from the grand poo-bah I'm almost there.

    6. You are really close to achieving great results.

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    • #32
      Hey James,

      Just needed to duck out for a minute but wanted to say something about your internal / external unevenness.
      As far as I know this is NOT a roasting fault but will certainly show up in the cup and possibly lead to confusion and doubt.
      To the best of my knowledge this is caused by incorrect bean processing and or storage.
      Over time moisture will migrate from the inside to the outside of the bean causing uneven moisture concentration.
      If the moisture is uneven there is no way the roast will be even.
      How old are your beans? How are you storing them?
      Frankly, this 3 year thing for green bean age doesn't sit comfortably with me.
      If you're not buying beans from Andy then I'd be using them within 6 months.

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      • #33
        Thanks Chokkidog
        I learnt a lot from that too! I like to know the whys (not just the try this - it worked for me) - and some of your points really clarified a few things! :-)
        Matt

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        • #34
          Hey chokkidog,
          Thanks there were some really good ideas and reasoning there - I will definitely try extending the time 1c out and reducing the time up to 2c and see how I go.
          All my greenies have been bought from Andy, and have been roasting harrar, gambella and brazil yellow bourbon all bought withinin the last 3 months with similar results. So unless all those greenies are duds - which if they're from Andy I would hope not - must be me. I'll try extending the roast time and if over the same results then we'll see.
          Thanks for your tips though - love some good sound advice!

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          • #35
            No worries Matt 'n James

            Roasting is an awesome adventure, the learning curve very much like a roast profile!!
            Got some great advice myself as recently as yesterday............ learning never stops.
            Last edited by chokkidog; 5 October 2012, 07:50 PM.

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            • #36
              I've never had problems with beans from Andy, so I would categorically say that is not the source of the issue.


              So let's hypothesise about the uneven roasting inside to out.
              I'm sure you're storing the beans away from heat or excessive air movement. If mine aren't in grain pro then they're kept in airtight foodgrade buckets.
              Given that the unevenness is moisture related is it possible that the aggressive ramping is causing an imbalance in the drying out of the beans during the early stage of the roast?
              Hopefully that issue will resolve when you try some different profiles.
              Keep us posted, we're all learning.

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              • #37
                Hey James,
                I was just giving my pasta sauce a stir and recalled you saying you had added another arm to your agitation paddle.
                Are the beans in constant motion, tumbling over and over repeatedly or do they pretty much stay same side up, moving in a wave?
                Constant agitation is important throughout the whole roast and if the heat source is from above but the beans aren't being turned over regularly then uneven drying will occur. This may be happening early in the roast when the green beans are heavier and more reluctant to agitate fully.
                Better go stir the sauce again............

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                • #38
                  Thanks Chokkidog - very helpful!
                  I'll try to get a good look at how the beans are moving and also try a slower ramp and let you know how i go!

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                  • #39
                    I am trying to roast a Guatemala Huehuetenango bean with a Behmor 1600 and having some issues. I'm new at this so this will likely play a huge role but considering the variation between individual beans and the way the beans seem to be charred inside I am trying to understand if this is related to the beans themselves or if I am doing something wrong - what do you guys think? I am getting very sour notes, intense bitterness and a dull baked & woody flavour.



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                    • #40
                      Form the pictures provided they look a little under done. How many roast have you tried? I don't have a Behmor, however if you post some info on times it may help. Im only guess but they appear to be a little after first crack?

                      Cheers,

                      Chris

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                      • #41
                        can you crack a couple of beans open and take a photo of the inside of the bean that seems to be charred?

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                        • #42
                          As others have said, they do look a little light.
                          Not that I'm an expert by any means, but are you using P2 by chance? I had that happen to the Hue part of a KJM blend once (don't really know why I tried to roast a pre-blend on P2): Notes of sour, sour, a bit more sour with a long lingering grass finish. The follow-up roast on P3 was much better.

                          I've found that particularly for smaller roasts P2 can be a bit tricky if you're trying to hit 1C at / near the power drop and on occasion will give a rather uneven roast - maybe some beans just don't like it. P3 or even P4 can produce a more even result.
                          For roasts I'm intending for espresso, these days I usually use 350g on 1P3C, and crack the door open at rolling 1C (brush handle in door) to slow progression towards 2C a bit. The slower ramp of that profile seems to produce a more even roast too, and I use it for some pre-blends (also P4). The same approach will work with larger roasts too, maybe B or A program to get to full power sooner and add time if needed. For smaller roasts, I think the smallest I did was ~100g on 1/4P3C, turned out pretty well.

                          I still use P2 from time to time, just depends on what I'm roasting and previous experiences with the bean or region.

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                          • #43
                            Can you please decipher the "P" acronyms your using?

                            Is this a Behmor thing, or are you on the original topic?

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                            • #44
                              WiredArabica thanks for sharing this, it's invaluable & I think it will help me a lot as I have a long road ahead. Yes I was using P2.

                              Chris the roast was stopped at the beginning of the second crack. Or shall I say, at the beginning of the second crack of those beans that reached that point Which doesn't really make sense to me just yet, but I'll try a different profile and see how it goes. While I have no experience with roasting, the unevenness and the way the beans are on the inside make me instinctively wonder if this is an old dry bean that got some recent superficial humidity in the Auckland weather, or whether it's just how this particular bean behaves. Do you get this unevenness in your corretto process around the 1st crack?

                              Finally I have re-roasted the batch as it was quite unusable and took it far into 2nd crack. I noticed that the result was a bit more even (is the one day difference playing any part here in terms of water distribution or is this standard behaviour?), but the beans look like are scorched inside and show the burnt tips in Bames' shots:



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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by MrJack View Post
                                Can you please decipher the "P" acronyms your using?

                                Is this a Behmor thing, or are you on the original topic?
                                This was in reply to Rumo above, I just forgot the quote ...
                                (The P jargon refers to the Behmor roast profiles).

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