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The Summer Conundrum… advice sought!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Howdy Yelta
    Repeatability is key!
    Can't argue with that statement, as long as they're not repeated failures.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by insomnispresso View Post
      We need some graphs!! Just kidding

      Matt, why not also measure time? I think that's what lead to your initial "summer conundrum"

      Cheers
      Matt
      Your wish is my command!
      These graphs should answer your time question too - my initial issue was that with warmer weather, the time overall was reducing, giving sour roasts. Those input gun temp tables I posted before show how I deal with changes in ambient to get basically identical profiles (ie same curve, time etc). These profile are from an 18 degree day and a 28 degree (you can see the start temp difference). But after the prewarm they are basically identical.
      And the background 'ideal curve' shown is my 'repeated success' curve, Yelta. But I do agree - if you're going to repeat a roast, make it a goodie! And now I can repeat this profile in summer - the goodness is back in the cup!
      Cheers Matt

      BTW the Peru was a fraction fast (I broke my own rules!) - I should have dropped by the 10deg at all points… live and learn!
      Attached Files

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      • #33
        Loved reading your roast notes

        So they are both good ones right? Is the 2C much earlier on in the bad one?

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        • #34
          Morning!
          No, they are both what I expect are good roasts (I'm about to crack the 'un-noted' columbian bag - so can't confirm yet! :-).
          Not a huge difference in the Columbian, but I could have slowed it a fraction more (see how it sits above the line) - which would have actually fitted it perfectly into my 'theory' - but I chickened out half way and kept the temp up a bit :-)

          Just as a comparison - here is the graph of one of my 'summer sour' roasts. As you can see - similar inputs gave the same shape profile - but 1C at 11-12 mins, not 13-14 - and the tasting results show my thoughts…
          Attached Files
          Last edited by DesigningByCoffee; 6 December 2012, 10:34 AM. Reason: Wrong Profile

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dimal View Post

            Wow! That does sound like an old one... Seems spring from when I was reading a lot about how Willem Boot likes to roast. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts once you've had a chance to try it.

            All the best mate,
            Mal.
            Hi Mal
            Into that bag now - and interesting! Amazing aroma off the beans in the hopper & off the grinder. Tighter pour, but without bitterness. Less body overall, lovely light, floral cup - great doppio! Not sure whether it will cut through the soy that well yet… will update on that. I'm thinking that the slower ramp gives more body/cocoa… which seems to work better through the soy around here - but hope to be proved wrong!

            BTW did I say it smells amazing…? ;-)

            Here's the profile for reference…

            Matt
            Attached Files

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            • #36
              Update - as suspected, a beautifully aromatic cup, but didn't have the cajones to really punch through the Vitasoy. We'll see over the next couple of days if anyhting changes ;-)

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              • #37
                Am I interpreting the graph correctly to understand the sour roast was dumped ~2 mins earlier than the two good ones?

                Did the audible 2C not actually start a few mins earlier than the 2C column?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by insomnispresso View Post
                  Am I interpreting the graph correctly to understand the sour roast was dumped ~2 mins earlier than the two good ones?

                  Did the audible 2C not actually start a few mins earlier than the 2C column?
                  Certainly did :-)
                  That grey 2C column is my ideal 2C timezone - therefore 2C came on 2mins early (as did 1C and everything else). But what's interesting is that the 1C-2C time is basically the same length - therefore my hypothesis that most of my ambient temp (and therefore flavour) issues happen as a result of the time before 1C!
                  Elementary, my dear Watson!
                  Matt

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                  • #39
                    Not sure and you can correct me but I think there might be around 60s diff in 1C-2C duration (KJM vs Eth/Indo) but you're correct there are also differences earlier on which is interesting.

                    One interesting data point is your dry (yellow) stage (assumed around 150c) is very different 7.5 vs 9ish. Could it have been the drying being too quick causing the issue? Hrmm..

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by insomnispresso View Post
                      Not sure and you can correct me but I think there might be around 60s diff in 1C-2C duration (KJM vs Eth/Indo) but you're correct there are also differences earlier on which is interesting.

                      One interesting data point is your dry (yellow) stage (assumed around 150c) is very different 7.5 vs 9ish. Could it have been the drying being too quick causing the issue? Hrmm..
                      I think that's about right - I didn't mark the actual 1C crack point, but with both being 199 from memory, the difference was probably closer to 30secs (cracks came before the marked temp on KJM) and the Mocha dropped 10secs into giving just under 5mins for one and just over (and fairly loose hand drawn graphs :-)
                      But I think it is the earlier stages that seem to play a large role in the flavour development - exactly where in the process I'm still not sure. I'll keep playing!

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                      • #41
                        Well, done plenty of pre-Christmas roasting, and it's now time to publish my results on the Summer Conundrum!
                        There is a little temp adjustment required between 1C-2C to maintain an even profile, but it is not as significant as in the main ramp to 1C. But having done 6-7 roasts in the last week in variable ambient temps, this following procedure seems to be gaining more consistent results. You'll notice the 1c-2c temp adjustment is only required every 10deg of amb, not every 5deg.
                        I've now added an ambient conversion table to my roast profile sheet, simply for my own reference - if it is useful for anyone else - please enjoy!
                        Matt
                        Attached Files

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                        • #42
                          DBC, that is such a helpful chart - I want to graduate off the poppers because of the small quantities and was scratching my head with all the corretto information around. Your posts have been very detailed and thoughtful. I managed to get the Kenwood BM250 second hand and decided to buy the Bosch630. I can't afford the logger just yet with all the Christmas shopping but I am going to try and match your profile

                          From your video, the height of the gun is just above the pan or the lid?

                          Thanks again
                          S

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                          • #43
                            Hi Somerset
                            Glad all the downloading has been of some use!
                            The lid pretty much sits right on the top of the pan - the tin can chimney is about 1inch high (depending on what version of the corretto that was!). It is also pretty well insulated, and the batch sizes were 350g.
                            While my 'technique' in that chart for different ambient temps is pretty much set in stone for me now, I do know that others in different places have tried it with varied results - we have low humidity and high altitude which does play a part - Sydneysider found my temps were much higher than they required
                            The hardest thing if you roast without a temp probe will be knowing when to change gun temps - as I work off the bean mass temp. In theory you could try looking at the profile and going by the times instead - be might be a little hit and miss, but if the time ends up too short - try the higher ambient settings next round
                            However, give it a go, and write down the times when you hit 1C and 2C and any other notes - and work from there
                            All the best. A well setup corretto will give you amazing results when you have a handle on it.
                            And let us know how you get on!
                            Cheers Matt

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                            • #44
                              Hi DBC, this is my setup, had a great time experimenting with it. Found the HG to be excellent value in the temperature control since I have no DMM. Managed to use a deep fryer temperature probe as a rough indicator and I must say, your profile sheet is spot on with the timings. I'd say I had luck with 2 out of 4 roasts, found the yemen quite hard to roast as I couldn't hear the cracks and I had to fiddle with a roast due to the lid melting ha. All in all, had great fun and got a pic of the best roast, a Brazil. Taste and quantity was great, well worth the effort.

                              Thanks for your help and have a good Christmas

                              S
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Seemed to be a worthy place for this updated post
                                Over the past few years juggling hot summers and cold winters, what I have found is that in both summer conditions (30°+) and in winter conditions (10° and less) I have to slow down the ramp from TP to 1C when compared to my baseline corretto profile to achieve a similar result in the cup. Strange but true.
                                Some practical examples - here are three profiles…

                                The Bandit - roasted to baseline at approx baseline temp of 25° - great flavour (been roasting & enjoying this blend for a few years).

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                                The Bandit - roasted approx to baseline at 11° ambient - overall sour and thin.

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                                The Bandit - roasted much slower compared to baseline at 8° (and cupping today ) - great flavour I've come to expect!

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                                Whether this is DMM lag, actual input temperature of the gun or other humidity/environmental roasting quirks, I'm not sure. But it is a general issue cycling through each year - and the results are in the cup!


                                Ahhhh - the quirks of roasting!

                                Cheers Matt

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