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  • Sulawesi Tana Toraja

    Any tips on how to get the best from this bean?

    I bought it on Beanbay as I loved the description from Andy "thick, viscous spicy syrup with low acidity and velvet mouthfeel", but I can't seem to hit the lovely mouthfeel and just get bitterness! Apologies for my lack of superlatives but my tastebuds are not that refined.

    I've gone through two batches one roasted to CS7 and one to CS9/10 in a Behmor on the P3 C profile. The CS7 batch had too much spice as an SO but was good under milk. I'm still on the CS9/10 batch and find this too earthy as an SO and lacking that velvet mouthfeel. I've tried it on brew temps of 92, 94 and 95 with 94 the preferred option. I've also tried messing with the fineness to tighten and loosen the pour but still not getting there.

    Maybe it's just my dodgy tastebuds....!

  • #2
    I agree. Andy's description was good so I bought 5kg but I am yet to find a roast profile that I enjoy. I have tried just before second crack and also rolling second to no avail. Perhaps I need to go even darker?

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    • #3
      How long is your overall roast?
      I've done a few indos (though not this specific one), and they seem to like a fairly gentle ramping roast - 17-18mins with drop just on 1C IMHO. What does the behmor give? Could the bitterness could come from a roast that's too quick?
      Matt

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      • #4
        I can't control the roast profile on my hottop (I went with the poverty pack). I tend to prefer a darker roast but I will try dropping just after first crack and see how that goes.... I am roasting some now.

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        • #5
          I have read that changing the weight can impact on the final profile on fixed input machines? That less beans can slow a roast?
          I roast with a corretto, so have that adjustability - so maybe 50g less and take to the same CS level - see what happens? :-)

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          • #6
            Matt is on the money.

            Indonesian beans are mostly soft to only medium density and don't like aggressive roast profiles.
            Avoid using a profile that works well for hard African, Yemeni or Central American beans. A 'soft' start, with a turn temp of no more than 60°C
            and gentle, even, ramp will do the job for this bean. A 16-17 min roast with 1st crack around the 12-13 min will give good results.
            Too often, we concentrate only on the end of the roast to achieve the required result for the
            different types of beans and ignore what is happening in the early stages.
            I pull this bean at the very start of 2nd crack ( the scouts ).

            cheers

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
              Indonesian beans are mostly soft to only medium density and don't like aggressive roast profiles.
              A 'soft' start, with a turn temp of no more than 60°C
              cheers
              Thanks for sharing this info. Was wondering of you could elaborate on what the 'soft' start will achieve?

              Pete

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              • #8
                What I mean by a 'soft start' is simply not to have too hot a load temp and to not let the roast accelerate
                too quickly at the beginning. If you are too aggressive early it can lead to an uneven drying phase and 'evaporation wave'.

                The evaporation wave is the process by which free moisture is driven out of the bean. Initially, the bean's free moisture conducts heat energy
                into the bean. As the centre of the bean approaches 100°C the free water begins to evaporate from the inside to the outside of the bean.

                In low to medium density beans the cell structure is more open and the number of cells per cubic millimetre, is less than in hard beans.
                This more open structure allows a faster transfer of heat into the bean which, in turn, will more readily give up it's moisture.

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                • #9
                  So, if I understand you right, a too aggressive start would show as uneven drying. This could not be corrected by, say holding the temp below 150C until things look even and then proceeding with the roast, because some beans would be "over-dried" and these would not have enough moisture to complete the processes in the later stages of the roast and result in the bitterness described above.

                  Assuming I've got that right, is there a taste that would indicate I'm drying too slowly? I'm guessing a flat, baked taste, but could it be distinguished from tastes produced by other stages of the roast being too long?

                  Pete

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                  • #10
                    Not a lot happens to bean roast character before the 'Maillard Effect' kicks in at about 150°C (til 170°C). Baking
                    typically occurs from 1st to 2nd crack with insufficient airflow and/or reduced heat input resulting in unbalanced roast dynamics and
                    a flatlining or negative temp increase, giving too long a time between 1st and 2nd crack/end of roast.
                    Baked roasts taste bitter, metallic and lifeless.

                    I'm sure that there is a point where the drying cycle is too long and that this may or may not affect the eventual taste profile of the roast
                    but some really 'fresh crop' coffee with around 14% free moisture is given a long drying time. It might be possible to impart negative
                    taste characters if there is insufficient airflow during the drying phase, resulting in 'stewing' the beans in their own steam
                    but I'm only speculating here.
                    I believe that some roasters in Germany twice roast their beans by roasting into the drying phase (but not more than 150°C)
                    then cooling and re-roasting until completion.

                    There's not really enough info in the OP to determine what the issue is. I would say at CS7, sourness, rather than bitterness would be evident.
                    If the inside of the bean is being dried too fast and therefore unevenly, during the drying phase, then internal scorching could be the outcome
                    in the more developed roasts (CS9-10).
                    Internal scorching will give bitter cup characters.


                    I normally aim for a temp increase of 10°C/min by 150°C, 7°C/min @ 180°C and 5°C/min by the end of 1st crack til the end.
                    I aim for about 4 minutes from the onset of 1st crack to the onset of 2nd crack.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                      I normally aim for a temp increase of 10°C/min by 150°C, 7°C/min @ 180°C and 5°C/min by the end of 1st crack til the end.
                      I aim for about 4 minutes from the onset of 1st crack to the onset of 2nd crack.
                      Great feedback. Typically what temp would you be aiming to load the beans at and what rate of rise from loading to 150C. From your comments I understand 10/min from 150 so guessing you are slowing the RoR on reaching 150

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                      • #12
                        Try this. . Behmor roaster
                        300g - 1lb - P5 - C

                        mine hits 1st crack with 3-4 mins to go. At that point I crack open the door and hold it open with the brush handle.

                        keep it going until 2nd crack starts (you may need to press + a couple of times)

                        As soon as 2nd crack starts, hit cool.

                        I bag my roast and consume at 2 to 3 weeks post roast.

                        Good luck

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for all the advice here guys!

                          Just some additional info on the Behmor too. The manual recommends the P1/2 profile for Centrals, P3 for Brazilians, Africans, SE Asia, Malabar and the P4/5 for low grown island coffees. The P3 worked really well for Sumatra Lake Toba beans.

                          I don't have a temp probe so cannot tell what I'm getting up to but the P3 C Profile takes 21.5mins to complete the roast. The temp profile does show a slowish ramp as 1 min climb then 1 min at 70% power, 10 mins at 80% then full blast to the end.

                          The P5 profile gives a gentler ramp so I will give this one a try too as it's 1 min climb then 5.5 mins climb at 70% power, 8.5 mins at 80% then full blast to the end.

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                          • #14
                            Here's an interesting visual look at the Behmor profiles (what the different Profiles actually do) - I don't have a behmor but this is a really interesting comparison for what they recommend works well for different bean origins when compared to my Corretto technique… :-)

                            Chocolate Alchemy » Behmor 1600 for roasting cocoa

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                            • #15
                              Matt, I've never considered roasting my own cocoa beans but I do LOVE chocolate! I feel another addiction coming on

                              I wonder if there's an aussie Beanbay for cocoa beans somewhere

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