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Sulawesi Tana Toraja

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Here's an interesting visual look at the Behmor profiles (what the different Profiles actually do) - I don't have a behmor but this is a really interesting comparison for what they recommend works well for different bean origins when compared to my Corretto technique… :-)

    Chocolate Alchemy » Behmor 1600 for roasting cocoa
    Those profiles are straight out of the Behmor manual. Nothing new there at all.


    Java "When all else fails, read the manual." phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    • #17
      "Typically what temp would you be aiming to load the beans at and what rate of rise from loading to 150C. From your comments I understand 10/min from 150 so guessing you are slowing the RoR on reaching 150" quoted from Beanz post #11.

      Load temp for beans depends entirely on the type of set up you have, where it is located, what environmental factors are influencing the roast in any given situation, ambient temperature of the room (or outside), the ambient temp of the beans and the charge weight itself and the charge weight relative to total capacity. Where thermocouple probes are located...... Lots of things!

      As I stated above I aim for a turn temp of 60°C, so the load temp starts to change in Autumn as things cool down. The roastery is air-conditioned but I mainly utilise that in summer to moderate the ambient environmental temp. In winter I turn it on when I'm packing the beans and doing other stuff!!

      The RoR up to 150°C goes something like this.......... Turn temp 60°C RoR -2/3°C/min, @80°C RoR 25°C/min, @100°C RoR 21°C/min, @120°C RoR 17°C/min,
      @140°C RoR 13°C/min. There is a (5%) reduction in heat input at 145°C. (and a further 35% reduction @187.5°C and another 20% @ 210°C, finishing with 0 heat input just before discharge)

      I don't get bothered if I'm a degree off my mark, things will settle down and over-reacting will only stuff things up. I prefer to be above rather than below my target RoR as it's easier to tame a roast than recover a fallling RoR. It's normal for some fluctuation in RoR (10°/11°.......10°/11°.......10°/11° etc; you get the drift) tho' I do like it to be pretty stable over 180°C, in each section of the roast, up to the end, (i.e. 7°C/min, bit of a wobble through 1st crack then 5°C/min after 1st crack to the end of the roast, whether I stop the roast at 2nd crack scouts or before.

      All of the above is what works for me, on my setup, achieving the results that I'm happy with and using the temp readings off the data logger as they are, relative to the progress of the roast. Other setups will have different readings for a similarly great outcome, so interpret this data relative to your own situation;
      we're all different.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Javaphile View Post
        Those profiles are straight out of the Behmor manual. Nothing new there at all.


        Java "When all else fails, read the manual." phile
        Yeah, it's funny - I thought I'd seen them somewhere, but I had a look in the Behmor manual I've got on file (how nerdy is that - I haven't even got a behmor!) and it didn't seem to have them, only a description - must be an old manual - that's why I googled those pics…

        But the actual profiles are very interesting - I'm intrigued to know why centrals like the 'flat out' type roast - but all else like the ramping style. And that ramping style is very similar to my corretto profile - it's just that I back off at the end of rolling 1C - which is probably what the 'brush handle in the door' does!

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        • #19
          The manuals have changed over the years, however; the profiles can still be found in the current 220-240v English manual as posted on the Behmor site.


          Java "Manual? What's a manual?" phile
          Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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          • #20
            I just tried my Sulawesi Tana Toraja after day 2 and so far the roast just on first crack batch was terrible. The rolling first crack batch was much better but still not great but I suspect this batch will improve when allowed to degass a week or two. I have already tried rolling second crack without success so all in all I just don't think this bean appeals to my taste.

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            • #21
              Sad to hear you guys are not enjoying this bean.
              I'm a novice roaster but have had spectacular success with my popcorn poppers. I have two. The breville is fast and hot. Salawesi tana toraja all done at 4:50 min. Kambrook is slower and I'm roasting these in 130gm batches to 12:30 min.
              Fabulous as a double short. Spice up front followed by a rich fruity intreaging middle and a sweet lingering finish. A definite favorite for us. Drinking from 3 days on.
              Cheers.

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              • #22
                Also had great success with these beans. Roasting in an open corretto, first crack around 12:30-13 mins and all done at CS9 (start of 2C) around 17mins. Agree with Chokidog about ramp speed, 10, then 7 then 5 degrees/min works for me. Fantastic as a SO espresso but also awesome mixed 50:50 with Mexico Arabigo :-)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ant View Post
                  I just tried my Sulawesi Tana Toraja after day 2 and so far the roast just on first crack batch was terrible. The rolling first crack batch was much better but still not great but I suspect this batch will improve when allowed to degass a week or two. I have already tried rolling second crack without success so all in all I just don't think this bean appeals to my taste.
                  I've never had nor am I aware of any bean that tastes good when pulled prior to the completion of 1st crack. Even the lightest roasted Colombians need to be taken completely through 1st crack. With that said that you've only really tried one roast of this bean that had any chance of being good, the one you took to rolling 2nd crack. Before you give up on it I suggest you try some other roasts done to up around 2nd crack.


                  Java "Love the spice!" phile
                  Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                    "
                    The RoR up to 150°C goes something like this.......... Turn temp 60°C RoR -2/3°C/min, @80°C RoR 25°C/min, @100°C RoR 21°C/min, @120°C RoR 17°C/min,
                    @140°C RoR 13°C/min. There is a (5%) reduction in heat input at 145°C. (and a further 35% reduction @187.5°C and another 20% @ 210°C, finishing with 0 heat input just before discharge)

                    .
                    Thanks Chokkidog this was exactlty the feedback I was seeking it gives me some good guidelines and comparisons to use as a home roaster. I am happy to see I am heading in the right direction but still plenty of things to learn

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                    • #25
                      javaphile, i had already tried a couple of batches just before second crack and also rolling second crack without success. I then tried a batch at the start of first crack and also a rolling first crack at the suggestion of others. I still have 3kg of beans so I am not giving up yet! I am roasting another batch right now which I think I will take a little further into second crack and see how that turns out. I think this is a bean that really needs time to develop.

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                      • #26
                        Hi Ant,
                        You shouldn't need to take it into rolling 2nd but give it a go.
                        You have already tried the beans a couple of days post roast,
                        leave a batch for at least 7 days and try them over the following 3-4 days.
                        Can you post more details about your roast profile?

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                        • #27
                          Chokkidog, I use a hottop roaster but its the poverty pack model without the programmable function. That said, the roast profile starts at 75c and ramps up to 215 towards the very end. A typical roast takes around 22mins. Yesterday I roasted another batch but took it much further into second crack (these beans roll into second crack for ages) and I finally have success. The flavour profile has changed leaps and bounds. I will see if it develops even further over the week. I don't think this will be a bean I will buy again but at least I can drink it happily now.

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                          • #28
                            There's nothing like overcoming a challenge!!
                            The beans in Beanbay are all great, sure, we all have our preferences but
                            when we find a bean's sweet spot with our own roasting setups....... only good things come!

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                            • #29
                              Haven't tried this as a SO, but have been using it in my espresso / latte blends (preblend 50% brazil 25% Harrar 25 % Indo to CS9+) and it certainly suits my palate better than the Sulawesi Blue. Best at least 10 days post-roast I reckon.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ant View Post
                                I just tried my Sulawesi Tana Toraja after day 2 and so far the roast just on first crack batch was terrible. The rolling first crack batch was much better but still not great but I suspect this batch will improve when allowed to degass a week or two. I have already tried rolling second crack without success so all in all I just don't think this bean appeals to my taste.
                                It seems to me you have roasted both above and below the optimum roast.

                                For espresso I really prefer *ALL* my beans just at the onset of second crack. Before that and they are very fruity and (for espresso) somewhat lively or sourish--which is fine for pour over. Once second crack is rolling all the fruit taste is gone and the cocoa taste is starting to turn to ash.

                                Of course--YMMV.

                                Greg

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