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Corretto Batch Size - Heat Input Adjustments?

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  • #31
    Ooooh sounds delicious! That preheat is huge, no issues with scorching?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by marcism View Post
      Ooooh sounds delicious! That preheat is huge, no issues with scorching?
      No - none at all. The pre-heat actually allows for a lower gun temp throughout the roast, reducing the risk of scorching. And although the DMM reads 200° before the bean drop, I doubt that the pan would be that hot - and even radiant temp of that amount would be unlikely to scorch that amount of cold bean mass - I think overall the temp would equalise pretty quick
      Was going to try another roast tonight, test the new juice bottle bean hopper - but ambient in the garage was about 2° - so might wait till tomorrow when the cold front's past!

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      • #33
        Well, really settled down into the zone with batch size for a 700g roast - and a good pre-heat & stretching out the roast further seems to be the key. This Mocha Java Combo I'm currently drinking is spectacular. I actually did a 700g MJ then a 350g Peru / Central roast, which I stretched out a bit longer than my normal 350g roast to further soften the acidity. Then did a post roast blend. But you'll see the difference in time - 22mins for the smaller and 26mins for the bigger.
        Beautiful cocoa from day 1 - but certainly not dark/oily. Great espresso, awesome through soy as a FW.
        Very happy!

        Happy roasting all
        Matt


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        • #34
          That second profile is starting to like like what I know as a Seattle roast;
          slowing the RoR through Maillard, then picking it up again 'til finish.
          Do you notice any difference to the appearance of the roasted bean? Are they shinier (but not oily)?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
            That second profile is starting to like like what I know as a Seattle roast;
            slowing the RoR through Maillard, then picking it up again 'til finish.
            Do you notice any difference to the appearance of the roasted bean? Are they shinier (but not oily)?
            I started developing that profile when I read somewhere that the sugars develop in the mallards zone (150-160) so I slowed the roast by upping the temp at 150° ready for my next ramp (which I do at 160° on the DMM) but slowing the fan at the same time. Stretches it out by about 1min in that zone. Did some early back to back testing, and it certainly did seem to be smoother & sweeter.
            As the the appearance - that is a real can of worms! I wouldn't say noticably shinier? Certainly not oily - need to have a closer look…

            But what has been fascinating with all these experiments is to see just how much flavour difference can be achieved without taking the roast darker, ie into rolling 2C (ie no dark CS10 roasts). I normally drop all my beans at 224°. I've recently done a batch where I ran too quickly from 1c-2c but same drop temp - the beans were lighter colour and more sour. But equally, I've found that by stretching out overall the length of the roast from 1C-2C, you can remove acidity from say a central - without actually going any darker (or shinier?) in colour :-)

            Still learning!
            Matt

            This was the 700g runaway roast…

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            • #36
              Hey Matt some interesting looking developments to your profiles!

              I have been aiming for the following as my generic profile last couple of months. Anything from 450g to 600g green, usually a 40 - 50% Brazil base plus Mocha Java. The milk only drinkers seem to really like it, I take it a bit further approaching rolling second crack for my sisters super automatic and it actually makes a semi decent coffee you pull 3 really short shots with milk.

              I am generally happy with the balance I get roasting all the different SO I have stocked up. Seems to preserve just enough of the origin characteristics and acidity, while still having heaps of body and sweetness and a smooth malty, caramel or chocolate/cocoa finish depending on the bean. I am drinking a lot more espresso these days, mostly on LP lever and really starting to notice the differences small adjustments / intended or otherwise make on the end product. Slightly hotter at the start, slightly cooler more gentle start and as you mentioned the time and heat between 1st and 2nd crack.

              Happy roasting to all.

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              • #37
                Hi Steve
                Yeah - amazing how you and up tuning your roasting to your machine and tastes!
                I'm doing more MJ + base roasts too - trying it over a PNG base which is really sweet a caramel. Will need to try some southerns again - early on found the brasil or columbinas really a bit bland as SO's - but I haven't been able to find a true syruppy sweet body with anything else - so maybe that is what's missing? (hence the reason there seem to be lots of espresso blends with a brasil base!).
                I'm surprised that you can get a ramp and 17min roast like that from a 500g batch - with 700g I had to really nail the gun to the rafters to achieve anywhere near sub 20min times - and then they came out sour! Those long roasts seem the sweet balance point. I suspect that the low humidity & high altitude out here has a lot more impact than I really understand - I have read that high humidity leads to faster roasting as the water transfers heat into the bean more quickly. Other coastal roasters with very similar setups to mine seem to use much lower gun settings…

                I might try the faster start / mallards slow for a 700g batch next - see if that makes a difference with the bigger batches.

                BTW Greatly enjoying a MJ blend of Uganda + Java (Sando got me onto the Uganda!) - it's a cracker! Right up there with the Tanz Uru & Eth Sidamo :-)

                Matt

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                • #38
                  The different climates is an interesting variable. My heat gun temps go something like this, pre heat is 230 - 250 depending on weather.
                  After TP and everything settles down I will ramp the HG up anywhere between 20 - 50 increments to obtain the desired ramp.
                  On approach to FC it will be somewhere between 480 - 520, its rare that I have had to go any higher than this, no surprise that it would have been on a cold and blustery day.

                  I get very hands on between FC and SC, temps are 380 - 430, no big adjustments trying to maintain 3 - 5 deg/min rise.

                  The Uganda is in my top 3 or 4 from BB so far, incredible value and more than holds its own as SO. I have used it as 60% base with Guatemala Jacaltenango and Sulawesi Tana Toraja making up the other 40% in equal amounts and its incredible!

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                  • #39
                    Interesting :-)
                    If you look at the runaway roast, my gun temps are quite close to yours by the sounds (550 at 1C) - but still took 24mins! Ambient was 14 deg though - and many of my recent roast have ambient between 0-10deg :-)
                    Have to try that Uganda blend - I often do a MJ+, which is something like 45/35/20 Ug/Java/Central - that sounds interesting :-)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                      That second profile is starting to like like what I know as a Seattle roast;
                      slowing the RoR through Maillard, then picking it up again 'til finish.
                      Do you notice any difference to the appearance of the roasted bean? Are they shinier (but not oily)?
                      Holy Toledo Batman!
                      Did two roasts yesterday, adding in the "Seattle Dip" as I mentioned - and whoa! Right out of the park! Cracked one this morning (one day rest!) a Mocha Java on a PNG Base, and was punched in the face by caramel! I've done this blend before with the standard 700g roast, and its been lovely caramel but subtle - but this dip seemed to take the good bits and triple-strength them! There does seem to be some additional 'shinyness' to the beans - the standard are quite dry looking, these are certainly not oily, but more polished? Could be all smoke & mirrors though… but can't argue with the cup!

                      Updates to follow as the beans age, and as doppio (this was in a FW). Here is the two profiles (the second was a back-to-back roast, hence the slightly faster start with same settings, despite the initial pre-warm - will adjust guns temps next time to compensate)…

                      Cheers Matt

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                      • #41
                        Never heard of this referred to as the "Seattle Dip" before but I have seen something very similar in a Willem Boot article I read a long time ago but I forget how he referred to it....

                        Mal.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                          Never heard of this referred to as the "Seattle Dip" before but I have seen something very similar in a Willem Boot article I read a long time ago but I forget how he referred to it....

                          Mal.
                          Yeah - that was a DBC special, inspired by chokkidog! Hey, if you can't make up your own scientific terms on CS - where else can you! Not going to get published anywhere else :-)

                          I got the idea from an old thread about stretching out the Mallards reaction zone (150-160) to increase to developments of the sugars (that may well have come form Willem :-) - and it seemed to work well on my smaller roasts, but the effect on these bigger roasts was startling!
                          It is the closest to a commercial style roast i've achieved so far for ooomph and aroma. The only thing I noticed this morning as a doppio was that it had a little sharpness at the back, which I would normally equate by taking it a little too far into 2C. And in reality, in those two roasts 2C came on a few degrees earlier - I could have dropped quite happily at 222° - there was a fair bit of rolling rice bubbles by the 224° drop point. So this might allow me to achieve the potency while roasting lighter :-)
                          One other effect - these beans will need more resting! The gentle roast are a very stable pour from day 1 - these are quite explosive! Same time, same drop point. Must be the more aggressive profile - more energy in = more energy out? - odd…

                          I'm impressed though by the effects!
                          Matt

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                            That second profile is starting to like like
                            Like like?? seriously?? Missed that one, sorry ;-) should read 'look like'

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                            • #44
                              I took a few kilos of beans and did a few roasts with the guy I bought my roaster from.
                              It was he who showed me what he called the 'Seattle Roast' profile. It could well have appeared on the Boot/Roast Mag site
                              but unfortunately it appears that some of the articles available open source from him have been deleted,
                              it may have been there somewhere. Not much reference anywhere else on the web, that is easily found.

                              I now use a modified version and I have found the same results, pretty much, including dropping the roast a little earlier, by temp but not time.
                              I have asked about the increased sheen to the bean but don't have a definitive answer.
                              In the cup there is a pronounced sweetness and clarity of flavours.
                              Even the roastery smells sweeter and more caramel/vanilla after a roast day.....mmmmmm.....nice :-D.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                                In the cup there is a pronounced sweetness and clarity of flavours.
                                Even the roastery smells sweeter and more caramel/vanilla after a roast day.....mmmmmm.....nice :-D.
                                I second that :-)
                                There does seem to be much more pronounced flavour - the standard ramp is more muted & subtle.
                                And as to aroma - even the beans in the bag seem to smell better? Sometimes you can get beans that smell a bit average in the bag, but grind and taste great, but these excel at all four stages - roast, bag, grind and "post-brew" level. Wins all around!

                                Just out of interest - what sort of roaster do you use?
                                Matt

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