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Aluminium DIY roaster idea - a couple of questions

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  • Aluminium DIY roaster idea - a couple of questions

    Being on a tight budget, I was thinking of buying some perforated metal sheets and rolling together my own roaster.

    Buy Perforated Aluminium Sheets Non ferrous stock,sheet,perforated,aluminium,500x500mm,1.7mm hole RS 202-7883-0003 online from RS for next day delivery. Whilst it should be possible to rivet together this piece of aluminium due to the flexibility, and it should hold more than a kilo of beans (by my calculations), I'm worried about the food safety of this product. Does anybody here know if 3103-h14 aluminium is safe for roasting beans due to the 1% manganese content?

    My other question is whether anybody would like to split an order with me, since the minimum purchase is 3 sheets, whereas 1 and a half is enough for both the cylinder and end-caps.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Update - Manganese Aluminium alloy is used in beverage cans almost universally and is safe for food. The question now is whether it will bend into a cylindrical shape.

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    • #3
      Another thing to consider, is it still rated as food safe when heated to temperatures required for roasting?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by guywhodoesstuff View Post
        Update - Manganese Aluminium alloy is used in beverage cans almost universally and is safe for food. The question now is whether it will bend into a cylindrical shape.
        Beverage cans have an internal coating and, unlike a roasting drum, are not usually subject to being heated. When heated, manganese alloys give off fumes and the inhalation of these fumes may lead to something called Manganism.

        Manganism is a disease caused by excessive exposure to manganese fumes
        or dust. Welders, miners, and others who work with manganese on a daily
        basis are at the highest risk of exposure.
        Manganism, or manganese poisoning, is often the result of exposure to welding fumes.
        Manganism is characterized by mental difficulties and the
        impairment of motor skills.

        Symptoms of Manganism include:
        a.. Tremors
        b.. Awkward gait
        c.. Abnormal balance
        d.. Memory loss
        e.. Impairment of motor skills
        f.. Slurred speech
        g.. Lack of facial expression
        h.. Sleep disorders
        Welders who have been exposed to welding fumes for many months or years should be tested for these conditions.

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        • #5
          The melting point of manganese is double that of Aluminium. It is safe to say that it is impossible that any of those symptoms would occur.
          The sites below describe manganese Aluminium alloy (3003) in numerous cooking applications, normally pots. A coffee roasting drum would have even more minimal contact with the metal. In addition, the layer of Aluminium oxide would prevent much transfer of manganese to the beans.
          What is food grade aluminium?
          Universal Stainless & Alloys Inc. ... Aluminum Grades
          What Is Manganese? (with pictures)
          GENERAL ALUMINUM INFORMATION from Aircraft Spruce

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          • #6
            Although welding will take the aluminium to a molten state, which would be required to start giving off the manganese?
            Doubt a roaster will ever go that far!

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            • #7
              It depends on what minerals have been added, but the melting point for aluminum is approx 660 degrees. So a roast should not effect it's structural integrity...

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              • #8
                I'd be a bit leery of choosing aluminium. It depends what you put in it and how you use but Al has numerous toxic side effects, and more are being discovered. While it may seem safe to use Al cookware with the oxide coating, keep in mind that green coffee beans are quite acidic - the combination found to be a problem for health.

                And if you use normal deoderant you are already dosing yourself with Al, so avoiding further dosage might be a good idea.
                Aluminum is a very popular metal used in cookware, because of its desirable qualities of rapid, even heat distribution (2nd only to copper) and light weight. However, aluminum is reactive with foods, in particular acidic foods such as tomato, wine, or vinegar-based dishes. The longer food is cooked or stored in an aluminum pot or pan, the more aluminum will be released into the food resulting in metallic taste and aluminum absorption into the body.

                The danger of aluminum's effects on the body has risen with the discovery that Alzheimer's patients were found to have elevated levels of aluminum in their brain tissue. However, experts agree no conclusive links have been formed between environmental aluminum exposure and the development of Alzheimer's disease. Furthermore, exposure to aluminum is impossible to avoid as it is one the most abundant elements, and is found in drinking water, cosmetics, food dyes, and many other substances we use every day.

                Tip: Hard-anodized aluminum cookware has gone through an oxidation process creating a non-reactive, hard surface which prevents any reaction between the food and aluminum, therefore preventing aluminum absorption into food. It is a more healthy cookware alternative to aluminum while retaining its desirable cooking properties.


                - See more at: Healthy Cookware, Cookware Health, Aluminum Cookware Health

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
                  I'd be a bit leery of choosing aluminium. It depends what you put in it and how you use but Al has numerous toxic side effects, and more are being discovered. While it may seem safe to use Al cookware with the oxide coating, keep in mind that green coffee beans are quite acidic - the combination found to be a problem for health.

                  And if you use normal deoderant you are already dosing yourself with Al, so avoiding further dosage might be a good idea.
                  I'm not a health expert, so none of this should be construed as health advice, especially since I am the one asking the question, but imagine your espresso machine or pourover poured out very small rocks instead of water. What would happen is a bit of coffee would rub off on the rocks, but negligibly compared to the dissolution of coffee in water. It is likewise with cooking beans as oppose to a liquid, wherein cooking beans should theoretically be orders of magnitude safer due to to the minimal points of contact with the aluminium, and given the fact that the heat from the flames, rather than the transfer of heat from the aluminium itself, is doing the cooking.

                  In regard to dosage, I don't really understand how you can arbitrarily judge that spraying Aluminium onto yourself adds up to ingesting beans that have rubbed on aluminium.

                  Edit: That is, assuming, that a study half a century ago finding correlation between Alzheimers and Aluminium content in the brain is correct, even though results to this day not reproduced that particular study, even with the superior testing equipment we have these days.

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                  • #10
                    I'd be opting for perforated S/S sheet instead of Al, if it was me...

                    You can even find ready made (or very close to it) roasting drums in the form of S/S office paper-bins. I've seen them on sale from time to time from our local Aussie Post and generally for under $20.00. Wouldn't take much to Mod one to suit roasting duty...

                    Mal.

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                    • #11
                      Not sure I'd rather use an unknown grade of "stainless", from some mill in china, especially when you can buy quality stainless perf sheet quite easily.

                      Unless you are creating fumes (i.e. welding), its probably quite safe to use the aluminium anyway (mine does).
                      That said, ill probably use copper or brass, just for the bling factor.

                      Now, where did I leave that roaster?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrJack View Post
                        Not sure I'd rather use an unknown grade of "stainless", from some mill in china, especially when you can buy quality stainless perf sheet quite easily.

                        Unless you are creating fumes (i.e. welding), its probably quite safe to use the aluminium anyway (mine does).
                        That said, ill probably use copper or brass, just for the bling factor.

                        Now, where did I leave that roaster?
                        Stainless steel specification is global. Just check the specification and get the right stainless for your application. You can ask for a milll certificate for confirmation which they should be able to provide a copy of but yes if you're talking about the bin...might be a problem getting the certificate. Maybe the tag on the bin would tell you the type of stainless steel eg 304, 430 etc.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
                          Beverage cans have an internal coating and, unlike a roasting drum, are not usually subject to being heated. When heated, manganese alloys give off fumes and the inhalation of these fumes may lead to something called Manganism.

                          Manganism is a disease caused by excessive exposure to manganese fumes
                          or dust. Welders, miners, and others who work with manganese on a daily
                          basis are at the highest risk of exposure.
                          Manganism, or manganese poisoning, is often the result of exposure to welding fumes.
                          Manganism is characterized by mental difficulties and the
                          impairment of motor skills.

                          Symptoms of Manganism include:
                          a.. Tremors
                          b.. Awkward gait
                          c.. Abnormal balance
                          d.. Memory loss
                          e.. Impairment of motor skills
                          f.. Slurred speech
                          g.. Lack of facial expression
                          h.. Sleep disorders
                          Welders who have been exposed to welding fumes for many months or years should be tested for these conditions.
                          I get all of the above from coffee withdrawal - so I have to have my priorities straight. I honestly think the type of metal will have no health effects, as mentioned - there is minimal contact between the beans and metal and neither does the drum reach high enough heat to produce vapours.

                          But... You may as well save yourself the trouble of making a drum by buying a cheap stainless pot of suitable size from the op-shop - which is pretty much what I did.

                          BTW the whole Alzheimer's aluminium connection has been debunked.
                          Last edited by habahabanero; 23 July 2013, 11:03 AM. Reason: Additional info added.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by saoye View Post
                            Stainless steel specification is global. Just check the specification and get the right stainless for your application. You can ask for a milll certificate for confirmation which they should be able to provide a copy of but yes if you're talking about the bin...might be a problem getting the certificate. Maybe the tag on the bin would tell you the type of stainless steel eg 304, 430 etc.
                            I can only imagine what the post office would say if you ask for a mill certificate. Lol.
                            Besides which, metals aren't always what it says on the tin (hence the reason for independent certification).

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                            • #15
                              Whoa
                              This has got the synapses firing!

                              Strainers & Baskets :: Filters.com

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