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  • Bean surface - wrinkly

    Hi all,

    Just wondering on the reasons why roasted beans sometimes have a wrinkly finish to them, rather than a smooth satin finish (no I'm not a painter!). I didn't get this much with my KKTO copy but have noticed it more with my new Behmor (10 odd roasts old). Is this temp ramp up, time to FC or overall time/temp of roast? I did some googling but didn't find much.

    I just ordered more greens so will continue to experiment; I've been trying to adjust roast times to try make the roast finish/start cooling at the right time, but I notice on the Behmor thread people are regularly hitting cool with 4-7mins to go...as standard practice. (? why choose a profile time you know you're always gonna stop short?)

    Using beans from CS with a few profiles and weight combos.

  • #2
    my 2c.

    This is the stage that the beans go through coming up to and just Post First Crack.

    The longer out of First crack you have the beans the more uniform the appearance will appear.


    But thats my interpretation.. Ill await for a CS pro

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by prloring View Post
      Hi all,

      Just wondering on the reasons why roasted beans sometimes have a wrinkly finish to them, rather than a smooth satin finish (no I'm not a painter!). I didn't get this much with my KKTO copy but have noticed it more with my new Behmor (10 odd roasts old). Is this temp ramp up, time to FC or overall time/temp of roast? I did some googling but didn't find much.

      I just ordered more greens so will continue to experiment; I've been trying to adjust roast times to try make the roast finish/start cooling at the right time, but I notice on the Behmor thread people are regularly hitting cool with 4-7mins to go...as standard practice. (? why choose a profile time you know you're always gonna stop short?)

      Using beans from CS with a few profiles and weight combos.
      Hi Prioring
      If it is one origin you're comparing two different roasts from, and you've been used a KKTO, the KKTO probably takes a while longer is my guess?

      Often the beans fill out more with a longer, slower roast - though it doesn't necessarily guarantee a better flavour. Dependent on the bean.
      If they are different beans - then some of the best tasting come from harsh environments - and can look as ugly as a hatful of spiders!

      The bigger question is - how do they taste?
      I've moved right away from trying to judge/compare beans by their shape/size/colour/oilyness/photogenicy (is that a real word?!!) - I was always being surprised by how something that looked so good could taste so foul and vice versa!

      Taste the beans and build up notes on what work roast wise - after all, they all look the same once they've been run through the Robur!

      Happy roasting
      Matt

      BTW sometimes wrinkly beans can be a sign of under-roasted beans too - but let the flavour do the talking
      Last edited by DesigningByCoffee; 15 October 2013, 07:28 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        @ggoosen - thanks, I don't normally get too close to 2C so maybe I'm ending the roast too early.

        @matt, my note taking is getting better but still a bit haphazard, especially tasting on different days post roast, I'm too much of a demand roaster. I hear what your saying about comparison but I can't recall seeing well roasted commercial beans looking like mine, I just don't want to be ignorant to something that could improve the taste.
        Not sure what you mean about them looking the same once ground...You'll just have to lend me the Robur for a while so I understand hahaha!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Ahhh the Robur - if only

          You're right - my beans don't look quite like many commercially roasted beans either (which is no surprise really. We're not using commercial roasters, so that will account for some of that

          Having said that - the flavours you can achieve home roasting can be spectacular! They will most likely end up tasting different to commercial (I had a beautiful 20minute popper roast once - but tasted completely different to the same bean in a 20min roast in the corretto). If a commercial roaster you can do 200kg in a commercial batch he/she is bound to get some different flavour nuances!

          I guess in the end we've all got to work with the roaster we've got on hand - hence the need to take notes, see what works, what we like, what we don't from our setup. My advice is to start asking some flavour based questions (I've found this really helpful over the years) - ie does it taste ashy, or sour, or overly acidic, or bland … some of these flavours (rather than colours or appearances) are more useful for tweaking roast profile IMHO.

          First step though I reckon is to get 2-3 batches ahead! I've found demand roasting often ends in disappointment. One of the best ways straight up of improving the flavour is 7-10 days rest for a lot of beans - so guess you've got busy night ahead!!! Sorry dear - off to the shed for 3 back to backs…

          Happy days!
          Matt

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi pr,

            Can you post some photos of your wrinkles? ;-D
            It's hard to comment without any visuals.

            Matt is right on the money tho'

            Comment


            • #7
              Click image for larger version

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              Kinda hard to see, but the bottoms one is wrinkly and the top one is smooth (sorry no DSLR in my house)

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi pr,

                You don't have anything to worry about, what you have is totally normal.
                You have two slightly different roast levels, the larger bean a bit more developed.
                Are they from the same roast? What bean is it?

                Have a look at this page of images, if you click on the sweet maria one (with the pointer)
                it will link to a video library page. Check out the video.

                Matt has summed up the salient points. It's all in the cup! :-D

                https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...&bih=956&dpr=1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok so pretty excited, did more testing tonight and actually put some thought into it....
                  I still consider myself quite a novice roaster, I totally understand the whole "forget about the times/looks and go with what tastes good" whether that's roasting or brewing, but I also believe that if you aim for nothing...that's what you'll get. Nothing.
                  So after much reading a long time ago my profile starting point is basically create nice even heat to get to 1C around 12-14 mins then control temp ramp to 3deg/min after 1C, dump when it looks good.
                  Tonight in the Behmor I had 200g 1/2lb P1 then increased the time to its max; 13:30. I did this to give me full power the whole time to see what happened.
                  I hit rolling 1C with 4:10 to go (9:20 into the roast). I let it go a bit past 1C and hit cool. Looks great, very even and way less wrinkles!
                  Then I thought, if I extend the P2 profile pre roast so that the 60% time mark (when it drops power) falls on 9-10 min mark to match 1C I'll be right... Worked a treat!!!

                  Now to taste them!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes chokki, same roast, same Peru de silva beans. Thanks for the link.

                    My point above is basically to roast a small quantity to see how the bean reacts, then adjust the time settings to make the profile suit the bean, then taste and tweak the profile accordingly....we'll, that's the plan anyway!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Great work prioring
                      That's the way to do it - decide before your roast what you'd like to try - follow it through to the end, recording what you did - then taste the results!
                      If you bring back taste your feedback, then there are some basic 'laws' (I use that term very loosely!) for roasting that can be tweaked eg if the taste is really sour, it is probably under-roasted - then roast longer or darker.
                      But eventually, with much trial and error, the stars will align you'll nail one! Then hopefully you've got enough notes on technique to repeat it…

                      Let us know how that batch tastes - it look good!
                      Matt

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Matt, it was after midnight when I finished so no pics yet, they looked and smelled great this morning. What I've roasted so far has always been drinkable but I can't wait to taste this one!! I think this has been a roasting milestone for me.

                        Peter.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                          Hi pr,

                          You don't have anything to worry about, what you have is totally normal.
                          You have two slightly different roast levels, the larger bean a bit more developed.
                          Are they from the same roast? What bean is it?

                          Have a look at this page of images, if you click on the sweet maria one (with the pointer)
                          it will link to a video library page. Check out the video.

                          Matt has summed up the salient points. It's all in the cup! :-D

                          https://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...&bih=956&dpr=1
                          Wow.. If online someone had mentioned this earlier ;-)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just checked out that link - can anyone imagine how a doppio made from this batch would taste?!?!

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ha! Smokin!!
                              There are some real doozies on that page! If I had roasted them, I'd be too embarrassed to look at them myself!!
                              Last edited by chokkidog; 22 October 2013, 12:09 PM. Reason: syntax

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