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First roast with corretto + PNG Wahgi

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  • First roast with corretto + PNG Wahgi

    So....I finished building my corretto today and completed my first ever roast tonight. I think it went ok, despite not really having much of an idea except what the profile should look like. I was able to get an idea of RoR for post-FC, but I struggled to know what I should be doing between load and FC. The information is probably out there and I'd probably read it during the week while building the corretto, but I was impatient and wanted to get roasting.

    I pulled up a picture that Matt/DBC put up outlining different regions and their profiles, so I just aimed to be in the ballpark of what he was doing. I am running a digital bosch heat gun, the same as Matt's, but had no idea what temperature to run it at (again, I'd probably seen him mention it but had forgotten). Either way, a first roast is a first roast...it's all about the experience of learning!

    I think it went alright. I mean, I tried the coffee only an hour after roasting and it already smashes supermarket coffee for six! Seeing this was my aim, it's already a winner Haha! The members in my household and myself (a better way of mentioning I live with my parents) mostly drink milk based drinks, so I'd chosen the PNG Wahgi on the information from beanbay which states that it goes well with milk. It definitely does, too! It seems like quite a dark roast and definitely cuts through the milk well. While I know good coffee when I taste it, I still struggle with defining particular characteristics and nuances. Hopefully this will come with regular tasting.

    Does this profile look about right? Keeping in mind I didn't have much of an idea, except that I'd read a post saying to keep the Wahgi at around 3deg RoR at post-FC (I ended up aiming for 4 because 3 seemed a little too close for comfort to stalling.) I dropped them as soon as I was sure I was hearing second crack.

    Click image for larger version

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    The corretto (build thread.. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/roasters/4...tto-build.html )
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    A third squat box wouldn't go astray
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    I need to print off a CS grading image, but FWIW...
    (the outer beans look darker/inconsistent due to the vignette I applied to dim the white lid)
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    I don't know if roast quality effects the pour, but it looked pretty good to me
    (what doesn't look good is the filthy machine!)
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    Last edited by dan110024; 10 May 2015, 12:44 AM.

  • #2
    Looks like a good roast to me, and a ripper first roast!

    Keep trying it over the next two to three weeks and you will notice the flavour change with time.

    Do not forget the absolute temps recorded will likely be unique for your setup but first and second crack temps will be consistent and should replicate between toasts, making it easier to learn your setup.

    I aim for 1c between 10 and 15 minutes, and 2c 5 minutes or so later.

    I have a simpler gun with stepped LED temp display, I use full speed fan and around 500c on the gun until first crack and then drop 50-100 or so after 1c to end of roast. My setup is not insulated (but it's a double sized pan) so will probably not apply to yours.

    Looks like you have a great first roast, take notes and modify one thing at a time and see how you like the taste of your roasts.

    Cheers

    Comment


    • #3
      Agree with artman...

      Excellent roast mate and the profile looks close to perfect. Great looking setup too...
      Just keep trying your coffee every day and note the changes in flavour profile as time goes along. That's an interesting thing to do in and of itself...

      If I was going to recommend anything that might be worth trying next time, it would be to shorten the ramp a little bit between 1st and 2nd-Cracks (steepen it a little). Too long a ramp in this part of the profile can flatten out the flavours a fair bit but the main thing, is to experiment and just keep records of each batch which should include your tasting notes. This will ensure you know what works with various beans and what doesn't.

      Keep us in the loop though mate, it's always good to follow each others experiences, that's how we all learn....

      Happy brewing,
      Mal.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the input. Will be keeping notes and document how it all goes. Can't wait for some experimentation!

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        • #5
          I must have been looking forward to tasting this morning....I woke up dreaming about making a flat white! To which I then proceeded to get up and make said flat white The art didn't resemble the perfection that was in my dream, though

          Last night, when tasting an hour from roast, I think it was quite dark and nutty (remembering I'm not good with defining characteristics yet). It was pretty bold in milk. A good boldness. This morning it had lightened up. The pour may have been shorter than last night as I'm still dialing in the grind (29 seconds vs 18 this morning) and have been slack with consistent tamping due to having crappy beans and generally not caring, so I'm not sure if that had an effect on the softness of it this morning.

          As an espresso (pour time was bang on at 25 seconds), it was definitely lighter and had some brighter notes to it, but not generally an espresso you'd call great (by no means bad, though).

          I think we're going to run out of this batch before the 1 week mark rolls around. I was considering roasting another batch today to let it develop a little, before we run out of the current roast, but that won't allow me to compare the roasts within the same time period.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nice work Dan for a first roast!!!!

            I agree with Mal on the post-1C ramp - I've been playing with this region a fair bit recently and have ended up closer to 6-7° RoR in this area now - gives better acidity and zing, and ages better.
            Just out of interest - what was your batch size? While I use my baseline profile to log all my batches, I've found that 350g batches seem to respond best with 17-18min times while 750g batches of the same beans in my setup like the baseline of 21-22mins … so worth experimenting.
            (just out of interest - I find that my Bosch gun with the same temp settings on fan 2 give an identical/ideal 350g profile as the fan 3 setting for 750g batches - strange but true!)
            Keep us informed how the roast develops - sometimes your tasting thoughts will be more useful in the learning process than profiles along

            Cheers Matt

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            • #7
              I'll aim for a 1C-2C RoR of 6-7 next time and see how we go. Going to try to shorten the load-1C time too.

              Batch size was 500g green with the gun on fan speed 3. I'll keep the fan speed the same and work towards the shorter overall roast time. Once I've noted the difference the roast time makes, I'll experiment on fan speed 2.

              500g suits us as we go through quite a bit. Especially now that I'm having an espresso followed by a flat white for tasting each morning.

              This mornings tasting.... The espresso was brighter, yet again. I can definitely tell that some sort of development is taking place. Flat white was smoother, but I think it (the flat white) might be losing body. Could that be right? It's not a bad cup, but I think the oomph is dropping. Not forgetting that it's only 36 hours old.

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              • #8
                Hi Dan

                It's all part of the process - tasting & tweaking
                Your beans will gain more acidity as they age, and then get some extra 'strength' in flavour as a FW after a good rest (but this is just on the cusp of losing acidity, and getting a little flat as espresso IMHO). I actually find that I get the best idea of what a beans characteristics are almost straight out of the roaster (1 day old) where as they age they move and shift a fair bit in flavour and acidity etc

                Looking at your profile, you have set the gun temp at turning point and then left it the same until 1C, then dropped a little after 1C?

                I know that many people use this technique and enjoy the results, but FWIW I've found (over lots of experiments) that a ramping roasts give me the best results both as espresso and through milk. I use the basic concept of ramping the gun by 40° in intervals, at 75°, 100°, 125° and 150° on the multimeter - and simply adjusting the gun starting temp to achieve the required time. In summer this is lower - in winter higher - but the basic 40° ramp is the same. Then I basically reverse this at 1C to slow the roast…

                Here is a profile from one of my recent PNG Waghi roast … you can see in the temp steps how and where I do what I do…

                Click image for larger version

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                But again - trial and error is the technique of the day. Roast, make notes, sample as they age…

                BUT I have found with the CS software that logging those temp changes you have made on the gun is the most important part of the process - so that when a roast really blows your socks off - you know how you did it!!!

                Hope that's useful
                Cheers Matt

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                • #9
                  I was adjusting the gun temperature but not logging it. I logged it once but then I wasn't sure how to log another temperature again. The software had locked the temperature slider for some reason, so I just concentrated on the roast that was happening. I was a bit all over the place with gun temperature while learning how the bean temps respond to the inputs. Will look into it and definitely log the temperature next time. It's half the reason I went for the digital bosch, for the repeatability


                  I see you have your Seattle dip before first crack, but that seems to line up with an increase in gun temperature. Is that right? Do the beans naturally start to flatten out in temperature, which causes you to increase the gun temp to keep it moving?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dan110024 View Post
                    I was adjusting the gun temperature but not logging it. I logged it once but then I wasn't sure how to log another temperature again. The software had locked the temperature slider for some reason, so I just concentrated on the roast that was happening. I was a bit all over the place with gun temperature while learning how the bean temps respond to the inputs. Will look into it and definitely log the temperature next time. It's half the reason I went for the digital bosch, for the repeatability
                    Hmmmm - that's odd. You should just be able to slide the slider to change the input … any ideas anyone? One of the little check boxes next to it?


                    Originally posted by dan110024 View Post
                    I see you have your Seattle dip before first crack, but that seems to line up with an increase in gun temperature. Is that right? Do the beans naturally start to flatten out in temperature, which causes you to increase the gun temp to keep it moving?
                    Good spotting Yeah - I don't add it in the notes often anymore, but when I use the slowing during the 150-160 range in large batches I actually increase the gun temp by 70°, but then drop the fan back to 2, which gives the right RoR, but has the benefit of keeping the gun temp up - otherwise I found it lagging too much when I wanted to ramp it up again. At 160° I then drop back the temp 30° and back to fan 3.

                    With the smaller batches it is not so much of an issue - then to get the dip I just drop the gun by 100° then ramp back up and add the 40°…

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
                      Hmmmm - that's odd. You should just be able to slide the slider to change the input … any ideas anyone? One of the little check boxes next to it?
                      Yeah, I could move it to begin with but not after the first entry. Not sure if those check boxes next to it had anything to do with it. Will check it out before next roast.


                      Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
                      Good spotting Yeah - I don't add it in the notes often anymore, but when I use the slowing during the 150-160 range in large batches I actually increase the gun temp by 70°, but then drop the fan back to 2, which gives the right RoR, but has the benefit of keeping the gun temp up - otherwise I found it lagging too much when I wanted to ramp it up again. At 160° I then drop back the temp 30° and back to fan 3.

                      With the smaller batches it is not so much of an issue - then to get the dip I just drop the gun by 100° then ramp back up and add the 40°…
                      Interesting. Had previously wondered how you went about the dip. Going to work on getting good, consistent roasts and then give the dip a go once I know what I'm doing and compare flavours.

                      What is the reason for the dip? I remember reading something about it improving a particular aspect of the roast, but can't quite remember what..

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                      • #12
                        I've found that reducing the RoR in this zone builds sweetness and body, especially in espresso - but haven't found anyone willing yet to second me on that yet, so might be all in my head!
                        I did go back and try a batch not long ago of well known beans without the dip - and found the result lacking compared to what I'm used to - so I'm sticking with it

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                        • #13
                          Well hold me to it when I say I'll give it a go once I get this roasting thing going well could do a blind tasting of the two

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
                            I've found that reducing the RoR in this zone builds sweetness and body, especially in espresso - but haven't found anyone willing yet to second me on that yet, so might be all in my head!
                            Don't think it's in your head Matt...

                            Have been roasting this way off and on for the last 10 years probably, and I reckon the results speak for themselves in the cup. Only thing though, I never knew it as the Seattle Dip, rather I was following advice proffered by Willem Boot in one or more of his articles in his compendium of online coffee roasting knowledge. Never realised it was called the Seattle Dip until you mentioned it some time ago...

                            Anyway, what ever one prefers to call this particular roasting profile quirk, it works for me too and that's all that matters in the end, isn't it...

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Seattle profile/ Maillard profile...... you're on the money Matt.

                              Quite happy to second your obs.

                              First shown to me by a roaster for whom I have enormous respect.

                              I currently use it in my standard blend for the Brasil component.

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