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First roast with corretto + PNG Wahgi

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  • #16
    The morning espresso wasn't particularly great. Ended up tipping it out.

    As a milk drink.....eh... It was ok. I guess. There wasn't a lot going on with it.

    I wish I could give a proper description, but the vocabulary isn't there yet.

    Luckily we're almost out. Will hopefully get another roast done tonight or tomorrow night. Will work on shortening the profile as discussed. All in the name of experimenting and learning
    Last edited by dan110024; 12 May 2015, 11:51 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dan110024 View Post
      The morning espresso wasn't particularly great. Ended up tipping it out .… All in the name of experimenting and learning
      That's the way it goes

      And you will find your palette will develop as you roast more - then the concepts such as acidity, body & sweetness will start to make more sense. Let us know how your next batch goes!

      Matt

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dimal View Post
        Don't think it's in your head Matt...
        Phew!

        Originally posted by Dimal View Post
        I never knew it as the Seattle Dip…
        I think I might have made up that name…
        I'd been told of a 'Seattle Style' roast profile which slows through the Malliard zone to 1C, but I wasn't going through that far, just dipping between 150°-160° - so snaffled the name!

        Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
        Seattle profile/ Maillard profile...... you're on the money Matt. Quite happy to second your obs.
        Cool
        Glad to hear that style of roast is out there in the real world being used in anger - not just in the realms of the DIY mad garage scientists!!!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
          That's the way it goes

          And you will find your palette will develop as you roast more - then the concepts such as acidity, body & sweetness will start to make more sense. Let us know how your next batch goes!

          Matt
          If I grasped a palette for wine tasting, I'm sure I can for coffee!
          Last edited by dan110024; 12 May 2015, 04:02 PM.

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          • #20
            I wouldn't do that too much. Might wreck your back :P

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            • #21
              Second roast tonight. I decided to roast outside the shed tonight due to being too lazy to move a couple of cars out of the way. Despite a wet and drizzly day, the skies were clear...I could see stars....well, there were stars when I checked. 10 minutes into the roast and the skies open up. Stars are no where to be seen. Yep. Roast ruined. Haha. That'll teach me for my laziness.

              Relocated somewhere a little drier and started it all again.

              I seemed to have the ramp from load to 1C under control. It was tracking about where I wanted it to be, after taking the advice in this thread for a shorter roast time. Hit the 1C mark and wanted to wash off a little RoR. Ended up backing off on the heat gun temperature a little too much and then over corrected and had it shooting up at a RoR of 10°C. Before I could get it under control (while trying not to over compensate a second time), I saw it was past the temperature where 2C occurred in the original roast and, as far as I could tell, 2C hadn't started yet. Decided to drop them then and there (pressed stop instead of unload on Roast Monitor by accident). As I was dropping, 2C kicked in.

              What are the repercussions of having such a high RoR at the 1C-2C range?

              In the notes of the screenshot, I'd written that I preheated for 10 minutes at 110°C and forgotten that I'd already had it going for half a roast anyway. I also managed to get the temperature inputs working this time. It was most likely user error the first time around.

              Will see how it is in the cup tomorrow after work.


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              • #22
                Ahhh, the 'mad scramble' roast … been there!

                Sounding and looking like a better roast overall - the shorter ramp before & after 1C will give you more zing - though with a 15min total time it might be a little too acidic - but really depends how you like you espresso

                Get in in the grinder!

                So much fun, this roasting caper

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                • #23
                  If it's an acidic roast, at least it'll give me a good example on what acidity is like.

                  Might set the alarm clock 15 minutes early tomorrow and see how it is. That way I will have all day to think about it

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                  • #24
                    Well... Looks like I now have a prime example of acidity! Definitely had a lingering taste of lemon, in the back of the throat, for minutes afterwards. Can't say I didn't enjoy it as an espresso....was a little bit of a fun drop, if you can describe it in that way.

                    Tried it as a macchiato, too. That wasn't that great. Maybe I was comparing it too much to the macc I have at my regular, which is a little unfair on any imperfect macchiato haha.

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                    • #25
                      From what I've experienced, you can tame any sourness (which is the front of the tongue flavour - think licking a lemon) by lengthening the roast time to 1C. This sourness results from under-roasting the bean right through (cooked on the outside, not the inside).

                      But there is also then acidity, which is independent and a bit different to the sourness, and can be tweaked as well. This can (and should be!) be present in most well roasted beans (I think of this flavour as a back of the throat acidity or zing. Sounds a little unpleasant to compare with heartburn, but that's the closest way I can describe it!) This acidity is what prevents a espresso tasting flat IMHO. I've found that this level of acidity can be controlled (well in my setup anyway!) by changing the ramp: Harder at the start then tapering gives more acidity, a slower start then harder ramp brings it back. How much you want is individual preference.

                      Looking at your profile and temp inputs, you are starting quite hot and only bumping up 10° at a time - which is quite a minimal ramp. FWIW, I'd think about setting the gun to 270° at the turning point, then going to 310@75°, 350@100°, 390°@125 and then 430@150°. Same finishing temp - different ramp. I think this would stretch out the roast a little too - hard starts are hard to pull back!

                      Anyway - that's what I'd try - but that's just me
                      Matt

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                      • #26
                        Sourness / green hay is pretty good sign of under development, which can happen just as much with long and slow roasts as it can with quicker roasts.

                        If you want to roast quicker you need to balance your environment temp, which is mostly convection heat application with the load of greens. For quicker roasts to be sweet, balanced and fully developed you need to be roasting quick but with slightly lower environment temps. If you load up to much weight then you will have to push temps higher developing the outside but leaving the inside a touch green.

                        So for a quicker roast, run your heat gun at about 280 - 300, for around 20mins and see what temperature the roaster gets stuck at. Tweak this setting so that it gives you something around 230 - 240°C reading from your probe.

                        Then find a setting that gives you around 200°C for a charge temp, load 200g of green, at the turning point change the HG setting to that which gave you your max environment temp and let it run...just see what happens. Hopefully you will only have to adjust your HG setting down just a touch nearing the end of rolling first crack so you can get your desired development time without stalling or the roast running away. Depending on your set-up you may need to change your batch size even lower or a touch higher to achieve your desired roast parameters.

                        A good starting point would be 6min to beans turning yellow, 4.5mins to first crack start, then 3.5min of development time.

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                        • #27
                          Some valuable information there! Will definitely take it all on board and aim to put it to use in the next roast.

                          The information you guys put out doesn't go unappreciated! So much valuable experience for all the new guys to take in

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
                            there is also then acidity, which is independent and a bit different to the sourness, and can be tweaked as well. This can (and should be!) be present in most well roasted beans (I think of this flavour as a back of the throat acidity or zing. Sounds a little unpleasant to compare with heartburn, but that's the closest way I can describe it!)
                            The closest I could describe this sensation, was to that of the zing-fizz that I experienced as a kid when I ate a Sherbet lolly or powder. Still does this for me...

                            Mal.

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                            • #29
                              With regard to attempting to control the Environment Temperature (ET) within a Corretto Roaster, this is not really as important as it would be if, for example, you were roasting in a commercial or shop Drum Roaster where the Thermal Mass of the Drum assembly is significant. The Thermal Mass just isn't there within a Corretto bread pan. In fact, the bean mass would supersede the mass of most bread pans used in Corretto Roasters.

                              Very slight variations in Heatgun output realise significant variations in ET in this situation, even a breeze blowing across the top of the Corretto causes ET variation to the point where attempting to control it is almost pointless. Far better in my opinion, gathered from experience over several years, is to consider the mass of the bread pan and the beans as an integral whole.... Corretto Roasters for the most part, are fan forced roasters (not fluid bed) and the immediate roaster environment plays only a very small part in the eventual outcome of the roasted beans, so much so that I completely ignore it...

                              Mal.

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                              • #30
                                Interesting, Mal.

                                I think I'm going to buy some bitter, sour and acidic fruits/foods this weekend so I can work on developing my palette and properly distinguish between the tastes/sensations. I'm clearly getting some mixed up.

                                I had another espresso after work. Only on the last sip did I think to work it through my mouth like you would when tasting wine. This opened it up incredibly and I started to taste all sorts of things. I should have been doing that from the start. I'm wanting to pour another one to explore this further but restraining because I also enjoy getting to sleep at reasonable times

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