Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

[Andy]

Hey guys, can anyone give me some advice on roasting PNG Mt ambra? Got some off Andy a few weeks ago and every batch I've roasted has been average at best.

Also been getting bubbles coming through my lattes after sitting for a minute or so. Has to be the coffee, as I've tried 3 different milks. Bubbles only seem to come through the crema also. Please help

say hello to Mr Acid!

The Ambra hates latte art and will make your nice neat cap look like a milk-shake.... but the taste is excellent. You have to determine if you want flavour or looks... and we are CoffeeSnobs here not PictureSnobs. ;-)
Put it in a take-away cup with lid and it will taste great.

Longer rest times (as suggested above) will help though (7-10 days it should settle) and allow better art. One of the Championship blends Fiefy used in a state competition had PNG in it and we had to wait 18 days for it to settle down but it produced sweet milk and an excellent art canvas.

[JojoS]

Interesting charts MrFreddofrog! You configured the logger to consider the first 5 minutes as preheat?

[MrFreddofrog]

Woo hoo. Finally got my thermocouples working. Here’s my first roast of India Elephant Hills and Yirgacheffe. Took them both to start of 2C just so I could get an idea of time, temp and duration b/w 1C and 2C. Then did another batch for both to a bit after end of 1C which I plan to blend 30:70. Fingers crossed it’s brilliant but realistically this is my first batch/s so I’ll be happy if it’s just drinkable.

Btw, here’s a pic of my BT probe. Took almost 2 weeks to get this working properly, argh!!!!

[Owlee]

Been roasting 300g batches on p3 a 400g settings. Got to second crack. But have tried a few variances. Let them degas for 24 hours they are about a week old now.

Cheers Barry I'll try that tonight

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Hey guys, can anyone give me some advice on roasting PNG Mt ambra? Got some off Andy a few weeks ago and every batch I've roasted has been average at best.

Most recent roast (coolish day for this time of year....on a warm day use 400g)
390g of Mt Ambra initial setting 400 P2 B
with 8.00 min to go, switch to 75%
I hit FC at 4.43 remaining
Dropped to 50% at 3.43 remaining
Pulled at 1.37 remaining.

Result was outstanding.

Also been getting bubbles coming through my lattes after sitting for a minute or so. Has to be the coffee, as I've tried 3 different milks. Bubbles only seem to come through the crema also. Please help

That suggests either CO2 from very fresh beans or quite acidic beans. I don't think the Mt Ambra is a particularly acidic bean (??), so if the beans have had sufficient time to rest, maybe try grinding coarser and dosing up a bit.

[sprezzatura]

How are you roasting it (program; weight) and how long is it resting after roasting? Are you allow it to degass?

[Owlee]

Hey guys, can anyone give me some advice on roasting PNG Mt ambra? Got some off Andy a few weeks ago and every batch I've roasted has been average at best.

Also been getting bubbles coming through my lattes after sitting for a minute or so. Has to be the coffee, as I've tried 3 different milks. Bubbles only seem to come through the crema also. Please help

[Agrajag]

Yep, that's exactly what that "heat bump" is. Instead of the heat getting sucked through the afterburner it's risen to the top of the chamber to come out the door. Don't get too worried about it.

Cool thanks for the explanation

Try some other beans too...

Yeah I fully intend to! Wanted to maybe try some of your PNG Mt Ambra next. I forgot to mention I also roasted some decaf wow that I got from you when I ordered the heatsnob. Only reason for decaf is that I got excited and wanted to roast more but don't drink all that much (don't want to have too much caffeine!). I think I may have gone a bit far with that one, it's a bit bitter (very dark but I believe it's supposed to be?) I followed what others were doing in this thread - might try stopping it a bit earlier next time. Not great as an espresso but fairly decent with milk. Will be interesting to see how different roasting methods affect it.

[Andy]

I opened the door for a bit when I hit cool which seems to have caused the air to move around or something to cause the rise? Not sure.

Yep, that's exactly what that "heat bump" is. Instead of the heat getting sucked through the afterburner it's risen to the top of the chamber to come out the door. Don't get too worried about it.

Try some other beans too... Brazil is, well, a bit like brazil. It has it's place in the flavour spectrum but play with something like the Indian Elephant Hills, the Zimbabwe or the Biftu to get a range of great flavours that will really help develop your roasting journey.

Take lots of notes on what you changed and what effect it had and you will be roasting like a pro in no time.

Enjoy!

[Agrajag]

Well, I was the lucky (I hope!) recipient of pyrmontboy200's behmore, I am totally new to this and after reading through this thread wasn't sure if his Brazilian beans were a good first roast as they sound pretty tricky - but since that packet was already opened I thought I'd go for it. I kept it simple, 200g P4D. 1C seemed to be about 13 minutes in, though since this was my first roast I wasn't entirely sure what to listen for. I kept it going for 1:15 after that and then hit cool. I'm not sure if I got to second crack or not, looking at the beans they aren't super dark. It did start to get pretty smokey when I hit cool. I tried them a day later and it was acceptable as an espresso, much better with milk though. Not good at describing flavours yet! A bit over a week later and it seems to have improved a lot.

2nd roast go I decided to hit P2 at 1C and opened the door just briefly. This happened at about 12:45 (which makes me think I was a bit late identifying 1C first go, everything else was the same 200g batch size and outside temp the same). I left it at 25% power for 30 secs then up to 75%. I had to press + a couple of times so I didn't run out of time, I got to ~2:50 after 1C (fair bit longer that first roast) and hit cool. Again I'm not sure if I got to 2C or not!

Looking at the two roasts they look extremely similar. The 2nd one smells a more complex than 1st (sorry can't do any better explaining!) but I haven't tasted it yet, going to wait a few days.

Below are samples from the two, 1st one on the right, 2nd on the left. For some reason the left looks darker in this photo, however looking at them with my eyes they look a lot more similar. Also the images seem to show more difference in colour, there isn't really that much contrast in bean colour for each roast (crappy phone camera!)



I installed a heatsnob for the 2nd roast and installed it as per instructions. I opened the door for a bit when I hit cool which seems to have caused the air to move around or something to cause the rise? Not sure.

[sprezzatura]

Will depend on what Brazilian beans you use too. The particular ones I was roasting, Daterra sweet collection, were very soft. I've had another roast recently with some others and they've taken to the heat a lot better. The difficulty of the Behmor and softer beans is they don't seem to like the direct heat that the Behmor uses, so one approach is to be really gentle and use one of the slower profiles, I had some limited success with P5 , mentioned earlier in the thread. The other thing is the inability to drop in at a higher temp and get drying started fast, means you have this extended drying phase so by the time you've hit FC, if you develop too much you will have a piece of ashy charcoal on your hands (even if the bean looks okay at the end of the roast). The other approach with this sort of bean is to speed up drying, so calibrate your weight down < 200g and start with P5 manual 100% power to get to yellowing faster, then slow things down until FC. This approach can you get close to timings achieved with a commercial drum. This looks promising too, but I can't really report any hands down success on either of these approaches yet.

Over the weekend I roasted up a very well reviewed Sumatran, Lake Tawar on P3 auto, power drop to 0% at FC for 30 seconds, then 50% power for another 2:45. I've gone back to this approach as TBH I haven't had a lot of success with the 25% power after FC. It probably depends on the bean, and how wildly it swings from exo to endo, but cutting the power at roll FC onset and reintroducing power seems to give me better results in the cup, and I encourage other Behmor users to experiment with this approach, along with the 25% power method.

Anyway the Tawar smells and looks good, cupped it and got some spice and dark chocolate. Good to roast something that is drinkable again!

I'll give your method a try. I've had more success with 200g batches and P5 auto works good for a really moist bean e.g., IEH Monsoon as it's less effected by the looooooong dry and slow ramp up. I haven't tried Ethiopia yet but will order some of the Biftu that everyone's raving about next week and hit it P5 manual and try your RFC cut out for 30 and then 50%.

I too am a pour over and press preference guy.

[pyrmontboy200]

Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

Hi all contributors to this thread. It was with a sigh that I saw my beloved Behmor walking out the door tonight, off to a new home. After graduating from crazy popper university back in 2014 and taking out a masters in Behmor roasting over the last couple of years, I've decided to move on to a PhD - a roaster with BT logging. Ok that metaphor doesn't quite hang together but you get the idea. During my ownership of the Behmor I spent a lot of time staring at my roast notes and testing all my little theories, a portion of which I've logged in here. It was a lot of fun and thanks to all those that humoured me in my ramblings. Most importantly I learnt a lot about coffee. I'll sign off from this thread with my summary of key learnings using this machine. I may well have been dunce of my class, so take these with a grain of salt. These are just my own opinions, I'm sure plenty of people will have a very different perspective :
- using around 200g as your charge weight will allow you to hit close to commercial drum timings, allowing an extra minute or two since you are not able to drop in to a preheated roaster and reach a turn temp quickly-
- the Behmor has by default a long dry phase, the lack of preheat means that this portion is, in my opinion, a little overweight. So it spends a bit too long here, cooks the beans on the inside a little too long, such that later in the roast, with some bean varieties, you have to be careful not to go too hard on heat or you will end up with internal tipping/ashiness. Munch on a bean after your next Behmor roast, do you taste charcoal? If yes my guess is you spent too long in the dry phase. How many times have you tasted a green tasting roast on your Behmor? For me hardly ever, compared to the popper where every second hard bean roast tasted a little grassy/green. So the beans are getting very well 'cooked through', but my point is perhaps too cooked through on occasion. This ultimately means harder beans like Ethiopians do quite well in the Behmor, as the harder exterior protects them through this extended dry phase.
- so (when you want to) how do you speed up this dry phase? Bring your charge weight down below 200g until you can see yellowing of the beans at an acceptable time, e.g 5-6minutes. You then may need to watch your heat for the ramp, as full power may deliver too much for the smaller quantity of beans. This approach of calibrating your charge weight to try and hit acceptable commercial drum timings I found to be very helpful as a baseline. I realise each roaster is in a class of its own. The benefit of this is that you can talk to your green bean supplier who is typically a roaster, and ask them what timings they use in their commercial drum, then with a bit of fuzzy logic take it from there
- if roasting 200g always cut your power once FC starts to roll for 30s, then power back on @ 50% and go up as close to second as you would like. This is the only way I found to develop on the Behmor that worked for me. P2 25% power post FC was never enough heat and I'm almost certain every roast where I used it in the stretch stalled. Again could be user error here, or down to different bean varieties. But it's issues like this that make me want to stop beating in the bush and get a BT readout .
- roasting quantities larger than 200g? This is probably contentious but I've had unanimously disappointing results for 300g and above roasts. One time I can recall I did this with an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, it still retained some fruit but just seemed a little thin and lacking body, like as though the beans were partially dehydrated instead of caramelised. If you like chocolatey lattes this is fine, but for filter drinkers I would not recommend these extended times to FC on the Behmor. But it's working for a lot of people on here so each to their own I guess.
- don't breathe in the smoke!

[JojoS]

The drop in temp at 7:30 is most likely exaggerated by the probe placement. I don't think the fan kicking in is causing much (if any) loss of momentum.

I monitor the temp drop with the built in side wall sensor and it registers a definite drop as the exhaust temp sensor climbs up where it more or less equalize with each other before the exhaust temp steadily climbs further. I suppose the impact on the roasting momentum and it's effect on the final product will depend on the stage where you are in the roast when the afterburner kicks in.

[moreCoffee]

I'm not sure if I've tried it with SO Brazilian beans (which seem to be troubling pyrmontboy), but might try that out next week.

Yeah, I think Brazil's are a tricky bean too. It's like they resist heat all the way through, then quickly turn to ash.
I had a go at some Brazil Pulped Naturals a few weeks back (using your approach) - Beans looked great on one side, but underneath they had black centre lines - tasty mighty ashy. Into the composted bin.

Let us know how you go. What Brazil's have you got handy?

[moreCoffee]

Interesting chart! I have often wondered about how the dramatic temp drop at 7:30 impact the roast quality and what is the best way to minimize it.

The drop in temp at 7:30 is most likely exaggerated by the probe placement. I don't think the fan kicking in is causing much (if any) loss of momentum.