Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

[pyrmontboy200]

Thanks davewilton. How do they taste? I normally cup my roasts against whatever commercial roast I happen to have around the place. That generally helps me to highlight deficiencies or defects in my roast and work on those. I've had a hard time with Brazils in the Behmor, so very keen to hear the results of any experimentation you do. The only partial success I've had with Brazil beans that I've tried is by slowing things right down, mentioned up the thread.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

Thanks for your help

Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left
[ATTACH]10658[/ATTACH]

Sorry mate, I assumed you meant C = COOL.

I don't use the Rosetta Stone function (just personal choice). I hit COOL (remembering that you are operating about 20 seconds ahead of peak bean temperature).

[davewilton]

Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

Hi Davewilton,

You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of 2C).

1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

You can certainly stop before 2C, but this should be after 1C has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

Cheers

*I'm not talking about emergency stops.

Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

Thanks for your help

Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Hi Davewilton,

You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of 2C).

1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

You can certainly stop before 2C, but this should be after 1C has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

Cheers

*I'm not talking about emergency stops.

[davewilton]

Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

Pretty new to the roasting myself cheers for the thread. Tried the below today suggested in earlier post

380g beans. Brazil Bom Jesus*
P1
FC 15min
P2
SC 16.30
Cool

One thing that isn't clear to me from these posts is what roast are you striking for? Medium? If you want to do a lighter roast do you cut it short of P2? How do you ensure that you are not under developing the bean for a light roast. I had one which was clearly underdeveloped (I got caught out by the unattended function, I'm still not 100% sure how you stop it other than pressing C).

*free with toaster from talk coffee I know no more about the bean

[moreCoffee]

OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
Rolling FC: 3:50
At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

*Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.

Thanks for the extra info Barry, will have to dig out some hard beans and give it a try!

On a side note: Looking at the data log from my last 2 attempts at your profile using 400 P2 B. The Behmor clearly holds 100% power for 7min and 30sec, fan kicks in, then the heater elements cycle on/off (on for 30sec / off for 10sec) until I manually override by pressing P4 (75%) at 12min. This creates a very smooth declining ROR (exhaust temp) to FC. Will be interesting to see how the 100% to FC looks when I try it with some hard beans and 400g charge.

Getting close to finally being able to pull some shots with the beans I roasted using your profile!

[moreCoffee]

Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?

Yeah, I suppose if you were to correlate the exhaust temp with the bean temp then it would appear to be bordering on flat line/stall territory. But I haven't noticed I'll effects in the cup. I've been trying hard NOT to hit second crack the last month or so, instead attempting to drag out first a little longer and dropping within a minute of end of FC. I find this is working well with the Ethiopians, I just prefer them bright and sweet with coco tones at the finish.

When I experimented with a drop to P3/50% at FC (instead of P2/25%), the roast depth was a little harder to control and as the bean got darker I didn't like the results in the cup as much.

Your idea is worth trying - might give it a go on the weekend, could be the compromise

I've been experimenting myself with the 75% power from end of drying to FC, then P2 during the stretch and will post my results soon, just waiting for the beans to rest as not a lot going on at the moment three days post roast. I don't even know they may still be duds, one batch is definitely a bit light. However I have solved my scorching problem on the Brazil Daterras using the 75% power application between the bread baking smell at around six minutes or so and FC. So a key learning here for me has been that this part of the roast, end of drying until FC, has a significant impact. My centre lines don't look as charred up now either, and look more like what I see on here, or from a commercial roaster. Most importantly, aesthetics aside, the acrid taste I attributed to the charring has gone completely.

How good is that!
I Agree, I think that being able to manually adapt the ramp to FC is really key for both roast control past FC and repeatability on the Behmor.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I`ve been roasting with a Behmor for a number of years now and have been watching the the threads with interest of the improved options and control of the new Behmor . Question - do your roasted beans taste better ?

Generally, yes (I think). I don't ever have a fair control sample, so that clouds things a little. I believe that I get more 'caramel' notes in most of my roasts, and have had fewer roasts with undesirable attributes. But again, I haven't been conducting anything like a scientific trial

That's not to say that the base profiles perform poorly.....all I've really been doing is stretching out the time b/w 1st and 2nd crack a little (while dealing with Canberra's rapidly changing weather.......we went from snow to 26 degrees pretty quickly).

[nemey]

Flavour

OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
Rolling FC: 3:50
At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

*Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.

I`ve been roasting with a Behmor for a number of years now and have been watching the the threads with interest of the improved options and control of the new Behmor . Question - do your roasted beans taste better ?

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Hey Barry, with the 400g load and harder beans, did you end up with a similar time to FC as your other profile?

OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
Rolling FC: 3:50
At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

*Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.

[pyrmontboy200]

Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?

I've been experimenting myself with the 75% power from end of drying to FC, then P2 during the stretch and will post my results soon, just waiting for the beans to rest as not a lot going on at the moment three days post roast. I don't even know they may still be duds, one batch is definitely a bit light. However I have solved my scorching problem on the Brazil Daterras using the 75% power application between the bread baking smell at around six minutes or so and FC. So a key learning here for me has been that this part of the roast, end of drying until FC, has a significant impact. My centre lines don't look as charred up now either, and look more like what I see on here, or from a commercial roaster. Most importantly, aesthetics aside, the acrid taste I attributed to the charring has gone completely.

[moreCoffee]

I have been experimenting with a 100% power to FC profile, used only on hard beans (basically Centrals..the Guat. Jacaltenango and and old Nicaraguan Diamond Microlot that needs using), where I drop to 75% at FC, and 50% 1 minute later (with a full 400g load).

Hey Barry, with the 400g load and harder beans, did you end up with a similar time to FC as your other profile?

The results look very good, but I'm not going to be able conduct a fair taste test, as I went out and bought a lever machine (see Achille 0996 thread)....and everything so far tastes great no matter what I do in the brewing process

You lucky so and so... I did notice that

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

That's a very similar weight drop to what I get, pcf1978 (perhaps not as coll an album title as 'Ripper 77' or 'Screamer 76', but your handle will do ). I have been experimenting with a 100% power to FC profile, used only on hard beans (basically Centrals..the Guat. Jacaltenango and and old Nicaraguan Diamond Microlot that needs using), where I drop to 75% at FC, and 50% 1 minute later (with a full 400g load). The results look very good, but I'm not going to be able conduct a fair taste test, as I went out and bought a lever machine (see Achille 0996 thread)....and everything so far tastes great no matter what I do in the brewing process

[moreCoffee]

Yesterday I decided to repeat the above approaches with the last of my Yirgy...

Approach 1
Bean: Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Special Prep
Start weight: 200g
End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)


Approach 2
Bean: Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Special Prep
Start weight: 390g
End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC (no drop to 25% this time)
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)



Results:


Left: Approach 1
Right: Approach 2

Again, approach 2 is just a tad darker than approach 1.

[moreCoffee]

Perfect Melbourne weather today, so got to have a go at the two main approaches in this thread...

Approach 1
Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
Start weight: 200g
End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)


Approach 2
Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
Start weight: 390g
End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC, followed by 25%
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)



Results:


Left: Approach 1
Right: Approach 2

Approach 2 ended up a little darker than I was aiming for. But looking forward to the results in 10 days!