Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I`ve been roasting with a Behmor for a number of years now and have been watching the the threads with interest of the improved options and control of the new Behmor . Question - do your roasted beans taste better ?

Generally, yes (I think). I don't ever have a fair control sample, so that clouds things a little. I believe that I get more 'caramel' notes in most of my roasts, and have had fewer roasts with undesirable attributes. But again, I haven't been conducting anything like a scientific trial

That's not to say that the base profiles perform poorly.....all I've really been doing is stretching out the time b/w 1st and 2nd crack a little (while dealing with Canberra's rapidly changing weather.......we went from snow to 26 degrees pretty quickly).

[moreCoffee]

Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?

Yeah, I suppose if you were to correlate the exhaust temp with the bean temp then it would appear to be bordering on flat line/stall territory. But I haven't noticed I'll effects in the cup. I've been trying hard NOT to hit second crack the last month or so, instead attempting to drag out first a little longer and dropping within a minute of end of FC. I find this is working well with the Ethiopians, I just prefer them bright and sweet with coco tones at the finish.

When I experimented with a drop to P3/50% at FC (instead of P2/25%), the roast depth was a little harder to control and as the bean got darker I didn't like the results in the cup as much.

Your idea is worth trying - might give it a go on the weekend, could be the compromise

I've been experimenting myself with the 75% power from end of drying to FC, then P2 during the stretch and will post my results soon, just waiting for the beans to rest as not a lot going on at the moment three days post roast. I don't even know they may still be duds, one batch is definitely a bit light. However I have solved my scorching problem on the Brazil Daterras using the 75% power application between the bread baking smell at around six minutes or so and FC. So a key learning here for me has been that this part of the roast, end of drying until FC, has a significant impact. My centre lines don't look as charred up now either, and look more like what I see on here, or from a commercial roaster. Most importantly, aesthetics aside, the acrid taste I attributed to the charring has gone completely.

How good is that!
I Agree, I think that being able to manually adapt the ramp to FC is really key for both roast control past FC and repeatability on the Behmor.

[moreCoffee]

OK. Most recent use of that profile..... 400g of Guatemalen 400 P2 B*. (20 Minute countdown)

With 8:00 remaining switch to 100% (so this basically keeps the power at 100%, stops the power drop from occurring)
FC: 4.35 remaining - reduce power to 75%
Rolling FC: 3:50
At 3:35 remaining - reduce power to 50%
1:35 pulled, a few snaps of 2nd crack emerging.

I repeated this procedure for some Nicaraguan beans, and everything (FC, RFC, Pull) occurred about 50 seconds earlier (was slightly warmer day, beans may not be so 'hard'). I may have pulled this one a touch earlier than I should, but looks good. My neighbour started his mower just after first crack hit, which provided a bit of audio interference.

*Should get same result from using 400 P1 B, then adding 2 minutes to time at start....I think. In that case you don't need to hit P5 at 8 mins to go.

Thanks for the extra info Barry, will have to dig out some hard beans and give it a try!

On a side note: Looking at the data log from my last 2 attempts at your profile using 400 P2 B. The Behmor clearly holds 100% power for 7min and 30sec, fan kicks in, then the heater elements cycle on/off (on for 30sec / off for 10sec) until I manually override by pressing P4 (75%) at 12min. This creates a very smooth declining ROR (exhaust temp) to FC. Will be interesting to see how the 100% to FC looks when I try it with some hard beans and 400g charge.

Getting close to finally being able to pull some shots with the beans I roasted using your profile!

[davewilton]

Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

Pretty new to the roasting myself cheers for the thread. Tried the below today suggested in earlier post

380g beans. Brazil Bom Jesus*
P1
FC 15min
P2
SC 16.30
Cool

One thing that isn't clear to me from these posts is what roast are you striking for? Medium? If you want to do a lighter roast do you cut it short of P2? How do you ensure that you are not under developing the bean for a light roast. I had one which was clearly underdeveloped (I got caught out by the unattended function, I'm still not 100% sure how you stop it other than pressing C).

*free with toaster from talk coffee I know no more about the bean

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Hi Davewilton,

You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of 2C).

1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

You can certainly stop before 2C, but this should be after 1C has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

Cheers

*I'm not talking about emergency stops.

[davewilton]

Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

Hi Davewilton,

You can only stop the roaster by hitting 'C'*, but you can hasten the cooling by propping the door open and blowing a fan into the chamber (best to wait for end of 2C).

1.30 between first and second crack doesn't sound right for a 380g load. Should be around the 3 mins give or take (possibly a bit less for 380g in warm weather).

You can certainly stop before 2C, but this should be after 1C has clearly stopped. If you are roasting for espresso based drinks, I wouldn't aim at stopping too far before second crack.

Unfortunately the beans in photo don't look like they will get on well with an espresso machine, but no harm trying

Cheers

*I'm not talking about emergency stops.

Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

Thanks for your help

Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Thanks Barry perhaps I did stop it too early. Thought I heard signs of second crack and got a whisp of black smoke so thought that was time to kill it. It wasn't the first crack of first crack if you know what I mean, it was when the intensity really increased and I was probably getting 4 cracks a second or similar. It was my first attempt at a larger batch size. First crack had definitely finished.

With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

Thanks for your help

Probably should have put something in for colour context. Commercially roasted beens from talk coffee on the left
[ATTACH]10658[/ATTACH]

Sorry mate, I assumed you meant C = COOL.

I don't use the Rosetta Stone function (just personal choice). I hit COOL (remembering that you are operating about 20 seconds ahead of peak bean temperature).

[pyrmontboy200]

Thanks davewilton. How do they taste? I normally cup my roasts against whatever commercial roast I happen to have around the place. That generally helps me to highlight deficiencies or defects in my roast and work on those. I've had a hard time with Brazils in the Behmor, so very keen to hear the results of any experimentation you do. The only partial success I've had with Brazil beans that I've tried is by slowing things right down, mentioned up the thread.

[moreCoffee]

With regards to hitting C it doesn't seem to stop the roaster it adds more time. I thought this was the Rossetta stone function. I've found once it is the only way I can get the roaster to continue once the unintended function kicks in, ie less than two minutes to go. I don't actually want to stop the roaster I want it to continue.

Hi Dave,

When the unintended function kicks in, simply hit "START" to continue the roast, leaving the time remaining unchanged.

Hitting "C" (Rosetta Stone function) will adjust the time remaining in the following manner based on your starting weight selection:
100g - 1:30 minutes
200g - 2:10 minutes
400g - 3:10 minutes

Pete

[davewilton]

Thanks davewilton. How do they taste? I normally cup my roasts against whatever commercial roast I happen to have around the place. That generally helps me to highlight deficiencies or defects in my roast and work on those. I've had a hard time with Brazils in the Behmor, so very keen to hear the results of any experimentation you do. The only partial success I've had with Brazil beans that I've tried is by slowing things right down, mentioned up the thread.

I will let you know when they've had a few days to rest, assuming you still need to rest for cupping as well. Probably starting with the Brazil isn't the best for learning but that's what talk coffee had in. I will order something easier from bean bay soon. I will try your technique too.

[davewilton]

Hi Dave,

When the unintended function kicks in, simply hit "START" to continue the roast, leaving the time remaining unchanged.

Hitting "C" (Rosetta Stone function) will adjust the time remaining in the following manner based on your starting weight selection:
100g - 1:30 minutes
200g - 2:10 minutes
400g - 3:10 minutes

Pete

Cheers Pete that's exactly what I wanted to know! I couldn't find that in the instructions.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Cheers Pete that's exactly what I wanted to know! I couldn't find that in the instructions.

Yeh, it's not in the main instruction book. It's on the 'Behmor 1600 plus Cheat Sheet' that should have come with the roaster. The countdown starts 75% of the way through the initial preset roast length (so 15 minutes into a 20 minute roast).

[moreCoffee]

Thanks for the info pcf1978. Looking at your charts for Approach 1 I can see your exhaust temp basically flatlines from end of first crack to drop (217.8 -> 217.3). Approach 2 using P3 you go from 218 to 219.8 at drop, for roughly a minute, so call it 2 deg/min increase. This has been my experience in monitoring the A-sensor when using P2, it basically flatlines and doesn't seem to go anywhere after the exothermic kick from first. I know exhaust temp is a bad proxy for bean temperature, but even still, wondering whether this 2-2.5 degrees per minute using P3 post FC is a better idea as this is the minimum RoR we would be targeting to get to second in any reasonable timeframe. Perhaps P2 through FC to stop temp spikes from exothermic, then P3 once we've cleared FC...just an idea?

What I like about approach 2 is the repeatability/predictability of manually setting the power level on approach to FC. With that in mind I decided to try a bit of a hybrid of the two methods. And for good measure I threw in pyrmontboy200's suggestion to bump back up to 50% mid way through FC.

Hybrid
Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
Start weight: 200g
End weight: 171g (loss of 14.5%)
Profile: 200g P1 Start, set power to 75% at 9min, drop power to 25% at FC, and finally back up to 50% after rolling FC.
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)



Notes:
Setting power to 75% at 9 minutes added about 20 seconds on time to reach FC (I thought this might happen, as P1 auto profile is usually cycling at ~80-90% power at this stage.)
I decided on 9min for this power change as it times in with the unattended alert feature.
Looks like bumping power back up to 50% mid FCr eliminated the flat line after FCe (as pyrmontboy200 predicted)
Probably one of the more even looking roasts of this bean I've done.

I repeated this shortly after with exacting results in terms of roast time (+/- 5 seconds) and end weight/roast depth. So it passes the repeatability test, just need to let them rest a bit now.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

How are you capturing the exhaust / side wall temperatures pcf1978? Have you wired something up inside the Behmor?

[moreCoffee]

How are you capturing the exhaust / side wall temperatures pcf1978? Have you wired something up inside the Behmor?

I've just got two bead probes hooked up.
I originally tried the stainless steel probes - but I found they would just get hot and stay hot - was hard to see small changes in temp. Probably good for measuring bean mass, less so for air in my case.

Finding the outputted temps massively inconsistent roast to roast though. Even on the same day. Could be to do with wind/breezes in my garage?
So finding the logging is only really useful to record/recall times and events rather than worrying about trying to correlate these with a specific temperature.