Behmor Plus - Roasting Approaches

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Ta. Yeh, I gave that up after a short experimental period

I think the most comparable readings (across roasts) came from a bead-type thermocouple positioned in the chaff tray.

[moreCoffee]

Perfect Melbourne weather today, so got to have a go at the two main approaches in this thread...

Approach 1
Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
Start weight: 200g
End weight: 173g (loss of 13.5%)
Profile: 200g P1 Start, drop power to 25% at FC
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10581[/ATTACH]

Approach 2
Bean: Ethiopia Biftu Gesha Sundried
Start weight: 390g
End weight: 335g (loss of 14.1%)
Profile: 400g P2 B Start drop power to 75% at 12min, then 50% at FC, followed by 25%
Data Log: (Blue measuring exhaust temp, and Red is internal)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10582[/ATTACH]


Results:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10586[/ATTACH]

Left: Approach 1
Right: Approach 2

Approach 2 ended up a little darker than I was aiming for. But looking forward to the results in 10 days!

To follow-up on this...

Hands down Approach 2 wins here.
Even after taking into consideration the difference in roast depth it's clear Approach 2 has produced a much more developed flavour profile.
The fruits are sweeter/riper, less zing, but with pleasant acidity. Smooth coco finish.
To my palate Approach 1 has more inline with an unripe stone fruit, Approach 2 is perfectly ripe.

I've moved on to the Yirgy's to see if the results are similar there. I've also got some Yemen Mocha Ismaili roasted to Approach 2 that's also in the queue too.

[pyrmontboy200]

Now the hard question, do you have any feel for why Approach 2 is superior? Obviously longer dry phase and longer ramp to first for the larger load. I can see FC length looks more or less the same, and additional development time of about 45s or so is the same.

The hardest thing I find with all this roasting bizzo is that it is hard putting your finger on what element you have changed and how it affects the final product.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

It's not going to be easy to directly compare those versions of Approach 1 and 2, as A1 is for a 200g load, and A2 is a 390g load. One would assume that there is less 'margin for error' in the smaller/shorter approach.

I started using A2 as a means of achieving a gentler drop off in heat applied, while still providing enough 'momentum' going into FC to avoid baking the beans (or putting another log on the fire ). Using the basic P2 profile, but dropping the heat to 50% at FC was a bit more hit and miss for me in winter....a couple of roasts weren't going to make it to 2C.

[pyrmontboy200]

On the surface, the very first thing I can say is that the beans in the larger batch spent longer in the roaster. Looking further at the roast curve, I see that as the batch size increases in the Behmor, the proportion of roast time spent ramping to FC from end of drying becomes significantly higher. Slowing down this ramp even more is the power cut in the second roast at 12 mins. In fact the biggest difference between Approach 1 and Approach 2 does seem to be a more gentle ramp. Drying is slower of course as you have a larger batch to dry, but the most dramatic element of the roast pcf1978 has changed between the two would have to be the ramp.

Of course there is the question of comparing the bean temp post first crack, but we simply don't have the information, so I'll steer clear of any theories here.

[moreCoffee]

Now the hard question, do you have any feel for why Approach 2 is superior?

Nope, not really...
Guessing....
- longer/gentle ramp to FC
- greater momentum during/after FC
or combination of both?

[Dimal]

Hi guys...

Probably A2 seems better because the bean may have been roasted more evenly all the way through and perhaps caramelisation is more developed....

Mal.

[Avex]

hi all, thanks for the wealth of information, i'm sure i'll be able to utilise some of it in good time...

i just bought the upgrade panel kit for an old behmor which i had repaired and got some biftu sundried from the beanbay.

i've never roasted a bean before this, so i apologise in advance for interrupting the expert conversation i'm interrupting, but can anyone point me in the right direction for roasting this particular SO and the best way to experiment yet not completely waste $50 worth of geshas :P?

Thanks!

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

hi all, thanks for the wealth of information, i'm sure i'll be able to utilise some of it in good time...

i just bought the upgrade panel kit for an old behmor which i had repaired and got some biftu sundried from the beanbay.

i've never roasted a bean before this, so i apologise in advance for interrupting the expert conversation i'm interrupting, but can anyone point me in the right direction for roasting this particular SO and the best way to experiment yet not completely waste $50 worth of geshas :P?

Thanks!

Approach 2, quoted in Post #92 above describes a roast profile using this very bean (and it works for me). If you struggle to reach 2nd crack, omit (or delay) the final power drop to 25%.

[Avex]

thanks Barry, i'm about to try this profile this evening. May I ask what this roast is intended for, espresso or filter?

so i tried the above roast profile just then and reached rolling FC at the 7min to go mark. I then hit C for rosetta stone, timed 1 min then hit P4 for 75%, then after another min P3 for 50% which ran for 1 min 10secs, and i hit cooling with 1 min on the timer because of the stuff I read about thinking ahead of the roaster. Also the end of rosetta stone being the beginning of SC. Was I right to hit rosetta stone at the 7min mark, reducing my roast time to 3.10 or should i have let it run for the full 7mins?

edit: my end yield was 338g, pretty close to what you guys got, so i'm assuming i *at least* got some of the fundamentals right. That said, the roast looks alright (medium, erring on dark) but there was little to no aroma, just a charred burnt smell, so I was initially afraid I overcooked them beans...

Thanks!

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Hi Avex,

It is Intended for espresso, but sometimes I take some beans in to the office for my Brazen (as long as it isn't really dark). I don't use the Rosetta Stone function, because when you are applying less heat after FC than the default profile, it can take a touch longer to reach 2nd crack. I judge when to pull it by a few factors (time since FC finished, colour of beans, increasing smoke from the top of the roaster door). Usually works well, though I always go a bit too late when roasting my Yemen Mocha beans (I will never, never learn ). I do write down the 'target time' that would be suggested by the Rosetta Stone and use this as a guide as well, but if the beans aint ready I let them go a bit longer.


Cheers

[Avex]

Thanks for sharing Barry. Since it was my first roast, I would say the entire process was rather chop and change from various techniques I found over the past 3 days.

Looking back, a few observations:

1) I constantly checked the chamber wall temp, realised it plateaued at mostly 130-135dc, highest was roughly 140. There were no organised timings for these checks, I simply hit B when I felt the urge
2) I wedged a chopstick at the door to listen for rolling FC at the ~9 min mark and left it there till the roast was done, checked chamber temps and they were largely unaffected (~130dc)
3) When I hit cooling a minute before the end of rosetta stone; which on hindsight was an impulsive thing to do, I just thought I’d rather err on the side on light rather than dark
4) I left the door opened at 45 degrees throughout the entire cooling process
5) I never had the goal to reach 2^nd crack and I’m not sure whether it ever did. On that note, I doubt I could even identify second crack.

Colour wise it looks like a city plus to me, I see faint cracks on some beans but not on all of them.

Also I had every intention to consume this as a pour over, and due to my lack of patience and eagerness from doing my first ever roast, I actually cupped it this morning and subsequently extracted 200g from 12g aeropressed.
This was roughly 10 hours in and I’m already quite happy with the results.

Strong floral (jasmine) notes expected of Ethiopians, and ends smoothly with vanilla tail notes when cooled. I could taste a hint of ripe stonefruit coming through which I hope will be more prominent as the beans peak over the next 4-10 days. Also, there was that hovering burnt popcorn taste which I hope will disappear over time.

[pyrmontboy200]

Congratulations Avex, sounds like you did quite a roast there. Not for lack of trying, but I've never been able to get the elusive jasmine from some of the Ethiopians I've roasted on the Behmor. Look forward to hearing about more of your roast cupping reports.

[pyrmontboy200]

Meanwhile I've destroyed two whole kilos of my Brazil Daterra, not one single drinkable roast. Roasting 200g I've tried going hard all the way to first with p1 auto then p2 manual at FC. Slow drying phase fast ramp, fast drying phase (by cutting weight and using full power, p5) and slow ramp, all using p2 manual after FC, typically for about 3 mins after first then drop. Slow all the way. The result of all roasts where I used full power after yellowing to FC was scorching, some facing and acrid taste in the cup. The result of roasts where I slowed the ramp down to p4 manual were not bitter or acrid, but flat and a baked grainy taste! Playing around with temp settings during drying phase didn't seem to change much. It seems that the optimum temp setting for this bean is somewhere between 75% and 100%, for the ramp. From these failures I have learnt that you don't need as much heat with this Brazilian as you would with a hard bean.

Problem is I've tried everything other than manually cycling the power between 75 and 100 during the ramp. I'm losing patience and see this as a bit of a hit it and hope strategy. What I really need to see is BT, which as us Behmor users know is impossible unless you own a lathe and wish to drill your drum axle. What to do? If I calibrate the weight of beans up to say 250g and continue with the p1 auto - p2 manual strategy is there any hope here? The roaster i talked to about my problems reckons with the bread baking smell at 7 mins I'm baking these beans. But you can't drop in at a high temp on the Behmor so can't see how to speed up drying....

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

A few blokes on HB seem to have used a 'work around' to effectively run a pre-heat on the Behmor (via use of 'off' button). I doubt it is what the manufacturer would recommend however.