If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
Hey Chris dont get to hung up on the resting thing, its not the massive variable that I think you think it is. Yes there is a peak and then a steady decline but its not severe.
Coffee will be nice and exhibit roast and origin character probably over a 2 week period if stored right. The top contenders at the Victorian barrister championships were using 4 week old coffee, ive been told.
The key is letting it rest enough to degas properly. some coffees can be drunk sooner but that doesnt mean that they will be worse later. Ive found that I always enjoy coffee more if its rested at least five days and that 7 can be best. sometimes If im running low ill be down too 3 or 4 days this is also nice but doesnt always have the same depth of flavors. I wouldnt drink it before this point, mainly because I want to make sure I still have some when its good.
When roasting I aim to roast so that by the time I use a batch I have another bag of coffee around 5-7 days. If I aim to roast once a week then that usually takes me too 12-14 day point by the time they are finished. and the next batch ready to go.
I think with the popper If your roasting to drink I would recommend doing 3 roasts at a time to the same color and same bean that way you wont feel like you have to roast more every time you drink a coffee.
If your roasting to sample then do 3 roasts of different levels. let them all degas for a good number of days maybe 7 then try them. That way you know that they are no longer degassing, but are still very fresh. there would be very few beans where your favorite roast depth at this point wouldnt be your favorite overall.
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
Hello,
thanks for your post.
Well, I stand by my point that testing all combinations yourself is an exhaustive procedure. I have been conservative with my estimate. I considered only four types of beans. If you have 10, than you are looking at 5000 coffee tests yourself. Also, you assume that one can make enough coffee in one patch that lasts for at least a few weeks, but I doubt that this is always possible. More likely someone will be able to roast a 100 grams and uses 15 gram per coffee. This would last for a few days.
The results can be presented in a way that encourages experimentation. I would present the data with a certain standard deviation indicating a +/- of the average. For example, instead of just saying bean X tastes best after 7 days, I would also indicate clearly that people also found it best after 4 or 5 days.
I see a great benefit in collecting this information, but unfortunately, it seems like there is no overwhelming interest in doing such a survey... pity. I was keen to see these graphs, not only for myself, but also for others who in the future will be in the same situation than me...
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
Not strictly correct there Chris.
If you roast to a certain degree say you can then keep trying the coffee every day until you run out.
If you roast enough to start with, you can taste it for the full 21 days and then you have 21 pieces of data.
Next time change a roast degree or bean type and taste for the next 21 days etc.
I see where you are coming from but I dont think youll find on here that youll get much data towards the 21 day mark.
I reckon the numbers would come in weighted between day 4 and day 14 at most.
The problem with the graph youd produce is that it would hamper experimentation.
Some newcomers would not venture outside your published parameters and may miss out on something they personally would prefer over the "average".
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
The starter pack contents differ so not everyone will have them or have had them.
Degree of Coffee Roast would be better quantified by the CoffeeSnobs Colour Chart.
Coffee taste is soooooooo subjective.
e.g. Ive read here a member say theyve never drunk coffee from beans over 7 days old; there are some beans I wont touch until at least then.
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
Originally posted by xtg link=1181527094/0#0 date=1181527094
If you respond to this post by typing in a line such as the ones above, I will collect the data and put it into a spreadsheet. Once I have some useful data I will post it to this forum - I should be able to get nice graphs from this. What do you think?
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
Hello Corretto,
I am not aiming at taking the art out of coffee making, only offering some rough guidelines
Well, there might be many variables, but the two most important variables are roasting degree and waiting time. And yes, people like there coffee in different ways, but the results of this survey would show that there is a common trend. For example, do coffeesnob drinkers prefer the peru bean to the indian bean after 2-3 days or is it the other way around? It would be great to find out about this, the results of the survey should do it... Testing all possible combinations myself is just impossible considering that the number of combinations of coffee roast/waiting time/bean type is at least 6 degrees roast * 21 days * 4 bean types = 504!! Anyone who is also interested in having some guidelines before trying 504 different combinations?
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
cheers, mate! Thanks again for the popper! I havent tried it yet, but cant wait to get it going!
Regarding my post. I am trying to unify experience of individuals into "a one glance overview". The posts you mentioned are great, but there is much text, and many variations, thus almost impossible to get through them all and develop an objective idea about the optimal coffee roasting/waiting time combination.
Would you not agree that it would be nice to have a overview, a graph that shows at one glance this information for different beans? I would find that enormously useful!
Please post you results here! I would need at least 5 entries for each bean to get a graph.
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
just another thing. I generally do a medium roast. on all my beans (first snaps of second) from that point it is fairly simple to adjust if necessary. If I get bitter/ashy flavor then I roast a bit lighter. If I get grassy/sour flavors then it needs to be a bit darker.
from that point if you really want to get into profiles for beans. If a bean has a really bright fruity taste, and you want more caramel/chocolate then roast a bit darker. vice versa if all your getting is caramal and coco, sometimes a lighter roast will bring out some sweetness and maybe some spiciness as well.
Re: Optimal roast degree&waiting time->optimal tas
If you have a look in the cupping section there are threads on all the beans mentioned except for the Guatemalan. Lots of what your asking is already covered in these threads. There is a thread on the Guatemalan Huehuetanago, which will give you a starting point. If you have any questions about individual varieties its best to keep them in their own threads so that the resource is easy to find for others.
Some good advice when starting with a new bean that Mal always gives is do 3 sample roasts. do one roast until there is a definite rolling second crack. another where second crack has only just started. and another where you anticipate the onset of second crack and pull them before you hear anything. This way you can decide what you prefer to drink.
For waiting. I find 1 day far too fresh. two days is enough if thats what Im down too but not ideal. 5-7 day if you can wait that long is pretty what I would ideally drink but there are people who think that longer then that is better for getting the best flavors from coffee.
The exception from that is decaf which I have found can be drunk the next day and is better used up sooner rather then later.
I like to conduct a little survey! To have a good idea under which conditions one can get the optimal coffee taste, I really like to determine the (A) optimal degree of roasting and (B) optimal waiting time (after roasting) for particular types of beans. So, I would like to ask everyone here to contribute their experience to shed light into this. I think this could be a great guide for everyone that starts to roast and grinds beans.
Perhaps, we start with the four types of beans offered in the starter pack (attached on bottom of this post -A-). I guess a sensible rating for the roasting is to use 6 degrees (attached at bottom of this post in -B-). Also, the waiting time is simply in days (attachment -C-). So, for example, if you found that you got the optimal coffee quality for the Segonda Naturals bean for a medium roast and waiting for 3 days (after the roast), then please respond to this post by writing:
Segonda Naturals (Peru), Medium, Day 3.
or an example for another experience is:
Indian Monsoon Malabar, Light, Day 7
If you respond to this post by typing in a line such as the ones above, I will collect the data and put it into a spreadsheet. Once I have some useful data I will post it to this forum - I should be able to get nice graphs from this. What do you think?
IMPORTANT: please use exactly the terminology as defined in the attachments (to make it easier for me to use the data) - thanks. So, you may just copy and paste the terms in the attachments to be sure.
Tjee, I am looking forward to this
Thanks, Chris
========= ATTACHMENTS ========
-A- Bean type (please copy and past)
1. Segonda Naturals
2. Sumatran Mandheling
3. Indian Monsoon Malabar
4. Guatemalan Volcan De Oro
_______________________
-B- Degree of Coffee Roast
1. Light: Light brown to cinnamon color
Low body and light acidity. The beans are dry. This roast is too light and does not allow the coffee to develop to its full potential.
2. Medium - Light: Medium light brown color. The acidity brightens and body increases slightly. The bean is still dry.
3. Medium: Medium brown color. The acidity continues to increase and the body becomes more potent. The bean is mostly dry.
4. Medium - Dark: Rich brown color. Very small droplets of oil appear on surface. The acidity is slowly diminished and body is most potent. This is the ideal roast for a well blended espresso.
5. Dark: Deep brownish/black color. The bean has spots of oil or is completely oily. Subtle nuances are diminished. Flavor decreases, while body dominates.
6. Very Dark: Black surface covered with oil. All subtle nuances are gone, aroma is minor, and body is thin. This roast is characteristic of American espresso.
_________________
-C- Waiting Time
Day 1: Coffee taste is optimal on day one.
Day 2: Coffee taste is optimal on day two.
Day X: Coffee taste is optimal on day X.
...
Leave a comment: