Roasting to a) relative points or b) absolute points

[Dimal]

Time and Temperature are sort of 'incidental' to be honest.
I find that much better consistency of outcomes results when controlling the roast via the Rate of Thermal Energy Input - Rate of Rise, etc
This can be linked to temperature events that you're trying to achieve or maintain and thereafter, time sort of looks after itself...

Mal.

[simonsk8r]

Spot on!

Once you find that ideal profile then it really is as simple as keeping your batch weight the same and making some slight variations to your charge temp to account for variables such as ambient temp, humidity, wind sheer (joking - unless you roast outside, that might actually be a variable to consider then!). I find that first minute(ish) of the roast is the most crucial, if you get to turning point at the same time and temp then the rest should fall into place nicely.

Enjoy the experimentation!

Awesome, great to know, thanks for that.

Ah yep I roast outside nowadays haha so wind shear may be a factor hehe.

Am pretty sure on the Heatsnob roast monitor you just click load template and then start roast from there. But yeah gotta nail roasts with this new approach first hehe.

I'd love to just go full manual with the Behmor, but wouldn't really know what I'm doing, so have been going with P1, then manual when I hit rolling FC.

So I may start with just with doing more roasts, ending it at a set temp (try a few different end temps), if I like how it tastes at that depth, try to replicate, but experiment with HOW I get there next time to see how it affects taste (which I have not much clue where to start with that, but will research)

Appreciate it

[solace]

(I'm assuming that essentially is uploading the old profile that was a great result over it and then as you go with the new roast trying to replicate that curve yeah?)

Spot on!

Once you find that ideal profile then it really is as simple as keeping your batch weight the same and making some slight variations to your charge temp to account for variables such as ambient temp, humidity, wind sheer (joking - unless you roast outside, that might actually be a variable to consider then!). I find that first minute(ish) of the roast is the most crucial, if you get to turning point at the same time and temp then the rest should fall into place nicely.

Enjoy the experimentation!

[simonsk8r]

When I roast I aim to end at the same temp for the same profile however I ensure I arrive at that temp in the same manner as the ‘template’ profile: i.e. always reach FC at the same time and temp (though time I allow for some slight wiggle room) then end the roast at the same temp after FC (219C)

That's great, cheers for that!

Yeah I'm yet to play around with the template profile (I'm assuming that essentially is uploading the old profile that was a great result over it and then as you go with the new roast trying to replicate that curve yeah?), as I need a good profile I'm happy with first, but great to know you approach it with end temp in mind, yet ensure the profile curve is as close as possible to the other.

[simonsk8r]

G'Day Simon, I don't use profiling software, did so early in my roasting career (about 10 years ago) however found it added a layer of complexity I didn't want or need.

FWIW I only monitor temp and time, I aim for first crack @ 14 mins, it almost always occurs right on 200°C, my next target is approx 225°C @ 19 mins, my roasts are even and consistent, have yet to have a dud, although naturally some are better than others, overall very happy with my results.

As far as your moisture variation is concerned, I assume you were roasting from the same batch of beans each time?

Awesome Yelta, I like your approach! Thanks for that!

Yeah I want to keep it as simple as possible. So you're a fan of end temp as being a good guide/goal (but also FC occurring in a certain time)... awesome I'll play around with that for sure.

And yep exactly the same bean and batch weights. But the first batch I dropped at 224 whereas the second was 223, so that may account for the 0.67% difference hehe.

[solace]

When I roast I aim to end at the same temp for the same profile however I ensure I arrive at that temp in the same manner as the ‘template’ profile: i.e. always reach FC at the same time and temp (though time I allow for some slight wiggle room) then end the roast at the same temp after FC (219C)

[Yelta]

Yeah true, good point! But in terms of ending the roast to get one consistent to the first, I'm just wondering if it's better to end at the same temp, or the temp relative to the end of FC (the same difference in temperature from end of FC).

Well I guess it may be a matter of just tasting each roast and seeing how it compares in the cup ay .

Even though I ended that second roast at pretty much the same temp (224 for the first, 223 for the second), it definitely seems to have a different colour depth and weight loss in the first was 16.71%, the second one was 16%.

G'Day Simon, I don't use profiling software, did so early in my roasting career (about 10 years ago) however found it added a layer of complexity I didn't want or need.

FWIW I only monitor temp and time, I aim for first crack @ 14 mins, it almost always occurs right on 200°C, my next target is approx 225°C @ 19 mins, my roasts are even and consistent, have yet to have a dud, although naturally some are better than others, overall very happy with my results.

As far as your moisture variation is concerned, I assume you were roasting from the same batch of beans each time?

[simonsk8r]

Yeah true, good point! But in terms of ending the roast to get one consistent to the first, I'm just wondering if it's better to end at the same temp, or the temp relative to the end of FC (the same difference in temperature from end of FC).

Well I guess it may be a matter of just tasting each roast and seeing how it compares in the cup ay .

Even though I ended that second roast at pretty much the same temp (224 for the first, 223 for the second), it definitely seems to have a different colour depth and weight loss in the first was 16.71%, the second one was 16%.

[Dimal]

Very true and quite amazing regarding how small a change can produce such a marked difference...
It's why we all keep detailed records of all of our roast batches.

Mal.

[Javaphile]

The entire profile matters. A change in any part of it will result in a different taste in the cup.


Java "Everything is relative" phile

[simonsk8r]

Heya guys! Just had a curiosity...

I'm relatively new to monitoring temps while roasting (for many years just roasting on the 'fly', time-based), but was wondering something.

In terms of consistent roast depths, is it better to roast to:

a) a relative temperature point based on when first crack occurs/ends

Or

b) absolute temperature point (just ending when the beans hit a certain temperature)

Am not sure if what I'm saying makes sense, but I recently did a few roasts, the first two roasts FC happened pretty much the same temps. The third roast it was slightly different measurements..

Eg If I did two roasts:

1) FC happened at 205, rolling was 212, end of FC was 220, and I pulled the roast at 224

2) FC happened at 211, rolling was 215, end of FC was 223

As the numbers are slightly higher, in order to get a consistent roast depth, would it be better to end that second roast at the exact same temp (224), OR end it relative to the end of FC in that first roast (about 4 degrees past the end of FC) which would be 227 degrees?

I hope this made sense haha.. thanks guys


(And obviously the profile ie how it got there matters, but I mean if I keep the same profile. These two profiles are attached too just for more info. The probe position was the same in both, and ambient temps were the same)