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Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Originally posted by Javaphile link=1115521013/15#20 date=1116521217
    Plus Im looking at selling my house and business and retiring here in the next year or two.

    At this point my plans are to buy a deepwater sailboat and cruise where-ever the whim takes me.

    Java "Always tweaking" phile
    Now, thats what I call a geat set of plans. 8)

    Mal.

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Originally posted by Mal link=1115521013/15#19 date=1116511078
    ... I could just imagine it though if you did, you wouldnt be able to leave anything well enough alone, there would always be little tweaks, adjustments and mods to make something work that little bit better or make the coffee taste that little bit richer. You might be too busy tweaking to sell enough coffee to pay the rent. Probably have a great time though. ...
    LOL Yall are getting to know me I see. ;D ;D ;D

    If I were to do this Id most likely do it in a small town. Ive had a couple offeres from local resturants to put my machines in their business and sell Java. Ive not pursued them however as until I have a larger roasting capacity itd be far too much work, and if Im using somebody elses roast, why bother. Plus Im looking at selling my house and business and retiring here in the next year or two.

    At this point my plans are to buy a deepwater sailboat and cruise where-ever the whim takes me. Now Ive just got to figure out how to bring my beloved Java with me. Due to their power requirements I dont see bringing my current machines with. I have no desire to be running a generator all day long just to keep the espresso machine hot so Im looking at perhaps one of the older gas-fired manuals. Either that or something along the lines of a Pavoni lever that can just be turned on when you want a cup and quickly heated up and then powered down with-out using too much power. Barring some major advances in wind or solar power it looks like this is the path Ill have to take. Ill be bringing my little electric roaster with but itll be a back-up to the BBQ.

    Java "Always tweaking" phile

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hiya Java,

    "Open your own Cafe"! Wow, thats a big step-up from a dedicated CoffeeGeek. As much as I love coffee, I dont think I could turn around and evolve it into a business, I just enjoy drinking it too much. 8)

    I think if I had to do it for a living some of the gloss might rub off but then again, you would probably get to meet a lot of interesting people and that might be worth the trade-off? I could just imagine it though if you did, you wouldnt be able to leave anything well enough alone, there would always be little tweaks, adjustments and mods to make something work that little bit better or make the coffee taste that little bit richer. You might be too busy tweaking to sell enough coffee to pay the rent. Probably have a great time though.

    Ill just stick to my own personal little patch here at home and only worry about which beans Im going to roast next, and how.... should I go with the Yemen Mocha or the Yirgacheffe? Hmmm.... decisions, decisions. ;D

    Cheers Java,
    Mal.

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hey Mal,

    ...using parts from a number of devices that I never quite got around to throwing out, you know.... might come in useful one day...
    <Javaphile looks around at the piles surrounding him> I wouldnt know anything about stuff like that! ;D :

    Im still toying with various designs in my head here for my next roaster. My current one does a great job, but the batches are just way too small, especially at gift time. Im also trying to convince an old time commercial roaster here to part with one of his old roasters but so far hes very reluctant to do so, apparently (per one of his employees) fearing the possible competition. LOL He knows Im just a home roaster, but hes also aware of all the equipment I have and that really the last thing I need that would enable me to open up my own shop is an appropriately sized roaster. With-out that roaster Im not likely to open my own cafe, with it how-ever I would almost *have to open my own place. ;D ;D

    Good luck with your project!

    Java "Inventors R Us" phile

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hi again Java,

    As a Home Roaster, Im an absolute newbie really and still finding my feet as it were. Im a bit limited in my dexterity and strength after a series of strokes, particularly my left side, which is a good thing since Im right-handed. This kind of limits me to relatively hands-off methods of roasting so far.

    Well anyway, the short story is that Ive only really tried Popper Roasting so far and up until I modified the popper to allow me the flexibility of stretching my roasts out a bit, I was more or less at the mercy of the poppers own thermodynamics, which varied quite a bit depending on ambient conditions at the time of roasting. Sometimes, in fact quite a lot, the 1st and 2nd cracks occured so close together it was impossible to tell when one ended and the other started. Needless to say, my roast attempts at these times were very hit and miss, mostly miss.

    With the advent of control over the fan speed now though, I can stretch roasts out to about 12-13 minutes and the improvement in the quality of the brew is really very pronounced. I would say that a similar leap in quality at the cup has been achieved by paying much closer attention to the timing of the roasts before 2nd Crack.

    I will continue to play around with the roast timings now using your suggestions as a guideline to see what else I can learn from the process. My next project is to build a Turbo Oven/Stir Crazy type of Roaster except that I will be using a modified heavy based frying pan and home-made stirrer mechanism using parts from a number of devices that I never quite got around to throwing out, you know.... might come in useful one day. Wont give up on the popper just yet though, still plenty to learn about using this for a while to come. Its only short-coming really is the quantity of beans that I can roast in a session. Not so much for our needs here at home but for when I roast up packages as gifts for friends and rellies.

    Well, Ive got another roasting session coming up tomorrow so will see what I can do with some of my old favourites and some new Decaf that I have never tried before. Really wierd looking beans those... look like they have already spent some time in a roaster but I know that it is just the Water Process effects on the beans that turns them that colour. Will be an interesting session. Well, got a few more chores to do before hitting the hay tonight so better get started as they say. All the best Java, and

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hey Mal,

    Thank you for your kind comments. Now stop it, youre embarassing me!

    Ive always considered Rules to be just basic guidelines to be used to help one establish what works best for them, rather than to be adhered to inflexibly. This isnt to say that the rules are ignored, on the contrary, one must first understand the rules and most importantly *why they are what they are before one goes and breaks them. Once one understands why the rules are what they are it allows one to make an educated guess at what to change to customize the end result to ones individual tastes/desires.

    I learned at an early age that what works for others didnt always work for me, in fact they rarely worked for me. Unbeknownst to the people around me I was legally blind from birth through age 6. This was discovered in the 1st grade health screening when I couldnt even see the eye chart, much less read what was on it. (It turned out that my mother had German Measles early in her pregnancy with me.) This necessitated that I find my own way to do things as what worked for the people around me obviously wouldnt work for me. Thus I got started down my path of breaking The Rules to find what worked best for me and while not ignoring the rules they were used simply as a starting point rather than as the end-all and be-all. So here I am some 40+ years later still making my own rules. ;D

    Java "Veil Lifter" phile

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Originally posted by Javaphile link=1115521013/0#14 date=1116268163
    Hey Mal,

    Im glad my suggestions proved useful to you. Now you can enjoy the full flavor of your beans with all their subtle nuances and tastes with-out their innate flavors being masked and dulled by the flavor of the roast.

    Java "Loves to experiment" phile
    Hi again Java,

    Actually, your advice was more than just useful. The simple act of applying your suggestions has had the effect of opening up the whole roasting process to a new level of appreciation for me. Its almost as if a "veil" has been lifted or some kind of Taste Mask, for want of a better description, has been obliterated.

    I now cant wait to retry some of my favourite beans using the enlightened roasting approach, and am sure it will be just as revealing as my most recent attempts. Will also try your suggestions of blending identical beans from different roast profiles and see what that does for me. Its a whole new world again. As we say here in Aussie Java, your bloods worth bottlin. Now, if I could just find a way to drink my way through the current roast batches more quickly so that I can experiment some more...

    Cheers Java,
    Mal.

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hey Mal,

    Im glad my suggestions proved useful to you. Now you can enjoy the full flavor of your beans with all their subtle nuances and tastes with-out their innate flavors being masked and dulled by the flavor of the roast.

    If you havent already tried it might I suggest, once youve tasted each individualy, blending the different roasts (of the same beans) together. I have found that this gives the cup added depth and is what I do on a regular basis. The only time I dont do this is when theres a roast that exhibites some special quality that I want to drink as a (as Ive come to call it) Single Roast SO, as oppossed to a Blended Roast SO.

    Java "Loves to experiment" phile

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Originally posted by Javaphile link=1115521013/0#5 date=1115577433
    As most beans sweet spot is prior to 2nd crack and we do not have full control over all the environmental variables we have to make a judgement call on when to pull a roast based on our senses.
    Hi Java,

    Tried your suggestion above with my most recent roast of four different varietals and I have to say, that the resulting brews from beans roasted at various stages before 2nd Crack.... 30, 20 and 10 seconds (as good as I could estimate on the day) proved to be much more flavoursome and sweet than with my usual roast of about 10-20 seconds past 2nd Crack.

    I must admit, that from lurking on a.c. and CG for a time had more or less encouraged me to consider that the 2nd Crack milestone was one that should always be passed. This seemed to be supported by some of our own respected Aussie commercial roasters whose business I used to patronise before taking up home roasting.

    In short, this seems to have opened up new doors of opportunity for me to try with home roasting that seems to have the potential to take my coffee consumption hobby to a higher level. Most grateful Java, for your insightful contributions. Onward and upward,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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  • clarexican
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Thats what I have been doing
    I roast 3 or 4 different beans as SOs then mix them in the grinder... seems to be working well so far!

    clarexican

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Not knowing how much experience you have with roasting may I put forward the thought that if youre new to it you might want to roast up the beans as single origins before moving onto preroast blends.

    Roasting as single origins allows you to get a better feel for how each bean roasts and what characteristics are brought out at what point in the roast. It also allows you to taste the coffee as an SO giving you a better idea of how it may fit with other coffees in a blend.

    Roasting as SOs also has the added bonus of allowing you to try many different blend combinations with-out going through 10kg of beans as you can do post-roast blending and try dozens of blends where normally you may only get 3 or 4 from that amount of beans.

    Java "Aaahhh...Smell that smoke!" phile

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  • Avi
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Hi Anne,

    Unfortunately I havent tasted many of your coffees, so I dont have any specific blend recommendations. So, heres what I suggest:

    1. Pick a "character" coffee. From what I can tell, these fit the bill - Yirgacheffe, Harrar, Kenya & Peru.

    2. Add a milder "base" coffee. Start with proportions of 60%/40% in favour of the base coffee. These fit the bill as base coffees - Brasil & Columbia.

    3. How does it taste? Does it work? For me Columbians dont work as a base. I often use both Brasils (> 35%) & Columbians (< 30%) together in the same blend.

    4. Once you have worked out a base for your blend, add a "body" bean. These may fit the bill as body coffees - Sumatra Mandheling & PNG Kimel

    See how they all dance together. Does it all work? Do the proportions need to be tweaked? Does it need a darker or lighter roast? Does it have enough character? What about the aftertaste - does it linger? Is it complex enough? etc, etc.

    You can continue to finetune the blend until the cows come home

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  • C8H10N4O2
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    I have: Ethiopian Yergacheffe
    Ethiopian Harrar
    Columbia Excelso
    Sumatra Mandheling
    Kenya AA
    Kenya PB
    Peru
    Brasil Monte Allegre
    PNG Kimel


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  • Avi
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Excellent! Can I ask what coffees you currently have in the cellar? The many knowledgeable members of this forum might have some great blend suggestions for you.

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  • C8H10N4O2
    replied
    Re: Can you judge a bean by its (roast) colour?

    Sounds like a mighty fine plan Avi!

    I am currently enjoying one of your suggested blends of  Brasil, Sumatra and Yirgacheffe.

    And Javaphile - I could not have asked for a better response! Thank-you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation!! Much appreciated!

    Anne  ;D

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