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  • Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

    This is a roast profile using the Coffeesnobs Roast Monitor. the bean type is the Guatemalan Huehuetenango SHB. FC at 198degs, SC at 220. Is this typical of a roast graph or should it have a different pattern?


  • #2
    Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

    Looks pretty good to me. FC about 11 mins, SC about 17 mins - good profile from where I sit .

    How do they look and smell? I suppose the proof will be in how they taste.

    Good going, NTE.

    Greg

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    • #3
      Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

      Still resting the beans and so I havent tried them yet. Yesterday (1 day afetr roast), pressing the air out through the valve it smelled a little like caramel. I just did the same thing again and this time it smelled quite different. Cant quite place the smell, but it smelled savoury, almost like when you buy take away noodles from somewhere like Noodle Box... Maybe it didnt help that I just ate some slightly salty Salada biscuits. I just got it! It smells a bit like chinese (shiitake) mushrooms!! I hope it doesnt taste like it too when I cup it in about 5 days time.

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      • #4
        Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

        Originally posted by NewToEspresso link=1211266656/0#2 date=1211270690
        I just got it! It smells a bit like chinese (shiitake) mushrooms!!
        Hmm... beefsteak? Its possible, and Ive certainly had it, although not from this bean. But the caramel is a better sign. Maybe youre just getting some of the less desirable VOCs that come off in clouds after roasting. Try again tomorrow. Also, try opening the bag and letting some of those nasty volatiles out first, then give it a shake and stick your noz in there and see what you get.

        The profile looked like it was climbing nicely all the way, except for that little dip after FC.

        matt

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        • #5
          Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

          I hate mushrooms..... Id call it hell if my coffee tasted the same. I think opening the bag and letting it air for a sec could be a go.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

            Did another roast, this time it was the Sumatran Mandehling. Got first crack just after 10 minutes (which was what i was aiming for) at which point I raised the HG to slow down the heat rise rate. It worked for about a minute and a half, rising at 2-4 degrees a minute, but all of a sudden the started rising at 8-10 degrees a minute and raising the HG even further failed to curb that in time. Because I had to pull out the roast at SC, the temp climbed up to SC at the 13 and a half minute mark which way a bit earlier than I was hoping for. Also, looking at th graph, there was very short stagnant period at the 5 minute mark... Whats that all about? I take it, this is more what it should look like (excpet that bit between FC and SC after the 12 minute mark)?

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            • #7
              Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

              NTE,
              If you get a chance with a brighter, more acidic bean, try a similar profile, keeping the ramp to 2-3 degrees after FC if you can, but this time turn the heat off completely just as it gets to SC and dont dump them. Instead, let all the beans go right through SC, without external heat, until you dont hear any more, then dump and cool as rapidly as you can. Then have a look at the temp graph. Maybe dont try this with a large quantity, as I dont want to be responsible for you wasting a lot of good beans. However, this can work amazingly well in a drum roaster for beans like Kenyan, so Im wondering how it would turn out in a HG roast.

              Of course, dont feel obliged to do this.

              How are the mushrooms, by the way?

              matt

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                Originally posted by Dolcimelo link=1211266656/0#6 date=1211342411
                NTE,
                If you get a chance with a brighter, more acidic bean, try a similar profile, keeping the ramp to 2-3 degrees after FC if you can, but this time turn the heat off completely just as it gets to SC and dont dump them. Instead, let all the beans go right through SC, without external heat, until you dont hear any more, then dump and cool as rapidly as you can. Then have a look at the temp graph. Maybe dont try this with a large quantity, as I dont want to be responsible for you wasting a lot of good beans. However, this can work amazingly well in a drum roaster for beans like Kenyan, so Im wondering how it would turn out in a HG roast.

                Of course, dont feel obliged to do this.  

                How are the mushrooms, by the way?

                matt
                With brighter, acidic beans I take it you mean africans in general like Kenya AA or Rwandan Cyangugu (& possibly Ethiopian harar)?
                Ill try giving that a go the next time I do a batch of Kenyans or Rwandan cyangugu but probbly not the harar because the first snaps of SC is as far as i want to get with the harar. In fact the recommended stage to pull out the harar is just before SC but how do you know when "just before SC" is until SC arrives? So, as a compromise, the very first snap of SC is where I aim to pull out the Harar.
                Because I have the HG mounted to the BM and the temp probe on the side, even with my quickest attempt at pulling out a roast at a particular stage, it always ends up getting unloaded a bit later, anywhere from 10 -15 seconds. Thats because I have to wind down the variable temp setting on the HG (temperamental GMC HG prone to failing), then remove the HG, then remove probe, find my mittens, switch off BM motor, and then I can remove the breadpan and empty it into the collander.
                As for the black (shiitake) mushrooms scent, didnt take a whiff yet today, will do so when I get home. To be more specific, the black mushrooms that i relate that to are the dried mushrooms. they emit that smell (not overpowering type of smell but distinct) in their dried state.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                  NTE

                  I got into the habit of pulling the probe 10 sec before I wanted to pull the roast, at the same time Id make sure the handle for the bowl was up and my glove was on.

                  I think your profiles look great and you have already identified where any minor changes might be made.

                  I suspect Dolcimelos suggestion to "coast" the beans to SC would be a disaster in a coretto. Drum roasters have a greater thermal mass and so could pull that off, but in a coretto, the heat dissapates very quickly when you turn of the HG.

                  Ive done several Harrars and whilst pulling just before SC accentualtes the amazing fruit, I reckon the shot is a little too thin in the mouth [but ok for blending though]. Ive settled on 20-30 sec just past first signs of SC, this gives more body, plenty of fruit and brings in plenty of chocolate too.
                  Theres a lot in this bean if you get it right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                    Thanks Reuben... Now, for the next tricky question, could I apply these profiles to the Yemen Bani Ismail? Thats the bean Im planning to roast next and my first roast of this bean before was nice but I didnt find it spectacular. I was aiming for 12 minute FC and 18 minute SC (not sure what I got, will have to look that up when I get home).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                      Gday NtE,

                      Just had a look at your second chart re: your query about what was going on with the temp gradient. It might be possible that you left it a little late to reduce the heat source as when FC gets a real roll-on theres a lot of exothermic heat being generated from within the bean mass itself and its possible that this led to the situation with the runaway gradient. Can be tricky sometimes.

                      I reckon youre doing pretty well though, those charts are pretty close to what most of us try to achieve. Regarding the Ismaili, heres a thread where roasting this one is discussed extensively... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1183530658.

                      Cheers ,
                      Mal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                        Originally posted by reubster link=1211266656/0#8 date=1211345494
                        I suspect Dolcimelos suggestion to "coast" the beans to SC would be a disaster in a coretto. Drum roasters have a greater thermal mass and so could pull that off, but in a coretto, the heat dissapates very quickly when you turn of the HG.
                        Well, I guess that answers my question, reubster, and NTE didnt have to waste a single bean. I was wondering whether the exothermic output of SC, combined with just the bean mass itself, might be enough to get it over the line, even when the heat source is external like the HG.

                        Anyway, thanks for the answer.

                        matt

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                          Originally posted by Mal link=1211266656/0#10 date=1211358312
                          Gday NtE,

                          Just had a look at your second chart re: your query about what was going on with the temp gradient. It might be possible that you left it a little late to reduce the heat source as when FC gets a real roll-on theres a lot of exothermic heat being generated from within the bean mass itself and its possible that this led to the situation with the runaway gradient. Can be tricky sometimes.

                          I reckon youre doing pretty well though, those charts are pretty close to what most of us try to achieve. Regarding the Ismaili, heres a thread where roasting this one is discussed extensively... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1183530658.

                          Cheers ,
                          Mal.
                          Ideally I would like to raise just before it hits FC but the FC temps vary according to batch sizes. When I used to do only 200g batches, Id get FC at 201-205 mark. The odd 250g batch I did, I got FC at 197 degs, that and different beans.. just too many variables to nut down. Will aim to raise HG at around the 196 mark in future. As for temps increasing out of control after FC before SC, thats not the first time its happened to me. Seems to happen quite often but Id also get just as many that dont run away like the Guat one.

                          As for the Yemeni being extensively discussed... You werent kidding about extensive!! Only 9 pages and counting... Will try and aim for 14 minute FC and 20 minute SC next time I roast it. My next roast is likely to be an african (Kenya, Rwandan or Harar) and maybe after that the yemeni. As it says in my avatar.... everytime I prepare to roast something, the hard decision to make is "what to roast next, what to roast next...."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                            Originally posted by NewToEspresso link=1211266656/0#12 date=1211412076
                            Ideally I would like to raise just before it hits FC but the FC temps vary according to batch sizes. When I used to do only 200g batches, Id get FC at 201-205 mark. The odd 250g batch I did, I got FC at 197 degs, that and different beans.. just too many variables to nut down. Will aim to raise HG at around the 196 mark in future. As for temps increasing out of control after FC before SC, thats not the first time its happened to me. Seems to happen quite often but Id also get just as many that dont run away like the Guat one.
                            Yep, youre spot-on there mate.... Varying the batch size does affect the bean mass exothermic characteristic for sure. I guess you need to decide on a batch size that equates to a comfortable turnover of beans within a 1-2 week period, or what ever youre happy with. Varying the batch sizes by that amount is not doing your chances of roasting consistency any favours.

                            Originally posted by NewToEspresso link=1211266656/0#12 date=1211412076
                            As it says in my avatar.... everytime I prepare to roast something, the hard decision to make is "what to roast next, what to roast next...."
                            Know that feeling mate ;D. Every time it comes up to a roast day, there are always a lot of decisions to be made. Thats one of the great things about being a CS member though, youll never run out of great beans to experiment with..... 8-)

                            Cheers mate,
                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Roast profile graphs... is this typical?

                              Did the harar this morning and this time I attempted to raise the HG just before FC but FC came earlier than I expected. And again despite raising the HG a long way up, the temp kept rising quicker than I was hoping for and ended up at SC a minute or 2 before when Id have hoped it would. FC also came earlier than I intended; FC at 8:30min, SC at 13min.

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