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Does end weight matter when judging roast level?

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  • Does end weight matter when judging roast level?

    I have been reading up on the roasting approaches for the Behmor Plus and am trying a roasting method that a few people have recommended. The weight loss I end up with seems too much compared to the corresponding colour of the end roast. Is the weight loss ratio guide that came on a roasting spreadsheet I found online incorrect? or is the end weight not relevant when trying to judge roast level?

    The guide I am using for weight loss compared to roast level is as follows:
    Start 390 Percent
    Cinnamon 347 10.93%
    American 344 11.82%
    City 340 12.70%
    City Plus 337 13.58%
    Full City 334 14.46%
    Full City + 330 15.34%
    French 327 16.23%
    The two roasts I did today are below:
    Roast 1
    Bean: Peru Ceja de Selva AA
    Start weight: 390g
    End weight: 321.2g (loss of 17.64%)
    Profile: 400g P2 B Start, P4 at 12 mins, FC 15:30 P3 D, 18 min P2, 19:30 End

    Roast 2
    Bean: Costa Rica Miel SHB
    Start weight: 390g
    End weight: 323.4g (loss of 17.08%)
    Profile: 400g P2 B Start, P4 at 12 mins, FC 15:00 P3 D, 16 min P2, 19:00 End

    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    sorry not a behmor user, but i did a couple of google searches that approximate the table... hard to tell from photos what roast level you got to, but your weight losses don't seem typical.

    Looking on with interest at further info on this.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nice looking roasts, especially the Peru! I wouldn't pay too much attention to that guide if I were you. For perspective, my roasts with those beans are between 14-15% loss (Costa Rica) & 15-16% loss (Peru), both stopped short of second crack at roughly 20% roast development. Your roasts to me look slightly on the darker side of Medium, on or just into second crack which is exactly what I'd be expecting at that percentage moisture loss. Enjoy!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MxD View Post
        Nice looking roasts, especially the Peru! I wouldn't pay too much attention to that guide if I were you. For perspective, my roasts with those beans are between 14-15% loss (Costa Rica) & 15-16% loss (Peru), both stopped short of second crack at roughly 20% roast development. Your roasts to me look slightly on the darker side of Medium, on or just into second crack which is exactly what I'd be expecting at that percentage moisture loss. Enjoy!
        Yes I stopped the roast once I heard second crack and had 21% development time for the Peru and 18% for the Costa Rica. I will try a 200g Indian roast and post the results

        Comment


        • #5
          This is the corresponding table that my spreadsheet produces for a 200g load
          Start 200 Percent
          Cinnamon 178 10.93%
          American 176 11.82%
          City 175 12.70%
          City Plus 173 13.58%
          Full City 171 14.46%
          Full City + 169 15.34%
          French 168 16.23%
          Below are the results of my latest roast.

          Bean: India Elephant Hills A Grade
          Start weight: 200g
          End weight: 167.3g (loss of 16.35%)
          Profile: 200g P1 Start, P5 manual override immediately, FC 9:40 P2 D, 13:00 End (Didn't hear SC but didn't want to burn so stopped)
          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • #6
            Looks on the lighter side of Medium to me. Definitely not a French Roast as your guide suggests!

            Comment


            • #7
              16.35%?????
              Dear God, throw those in the "trash" they are not a small city,town,village roast it's something not of this world and I can't imagine drinking that.

              FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS

              As you have just discovered chasing someone else's tail will just lead to confusion (if not insanity) and not better tasting roasts.

              The table you are trying to follow might have helped the original author but that is when using his bean, environment, temperature readings and roaster. You are also working on the fact that the moisture levels are the same in both the authors table and your beans and it's obvious from the results, they 'aint.

              I really dislike that sort of table for anything more than a guide of what someone else did, it really means nothing to anyone else, ever.

              Keep track of your own data, it will help you understand why one roast of the same bean was different to another.

              I also suggest you use the CS colour scale (as others here will understand the roast colours better than just a picture)
              https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/mar...s-member-cards
              From your last picture, that roast looks like a CS6-7 but it might look darker to you in real life.

              ...and I strongly suggest you use your tastebuds to determine if a roast is good.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Andy View Post
                16.35%?????
                Dear God, throw those in the "trash" they are not a small city,town,village roast it's something not of this world and I can't imagine drinking that.

                FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS
                So glad I read this in time as I was very close to throwing the beans and roaster in the bin I have printed out the CS colour scale so now I can accurately measure the roast colour in CoffeeSnobs language. The Peru and Costa Rica look like a C9 to me while the Indian looks like a C7/8

                I will discard any weight loss ratio information I find on the net. For the type of roasting I am doing, is there any point looking at the weight loss and tracking it for each roast? Will this information provide me with any insight that is useful or do I just use the CS colour code and my taste buds and that is all that matters. I know it ultimately comes down to taste but would like to know if the weight loss variable means anything when tracked with my own data.



                Comment


                • Andy
                  Andy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Oh... Peru and Costa at CS9 should be great. Elephant at CS7/8 might be a little light, still drinkable but you might prefer it a little deeper if you get some "peas" green bean flavours coming through.

                • zinga
                  zinga commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks Andy. I will keep a log of every variable and keep tasting until I work out what tastes perfect to me. When it comes to ambient temp, would I be logging the temp it shows in the BOM app or would it be the initial A temp read in the Behmor?

                • Andy
                  Andy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ambient = room temperature
                  Cold air into a roaster needs to be heated, colder the air, the longer the roast (for the same heat inputs).

                  Roasting on your veranda will yield different results in winter and summer, having your own data will make it easy to compensate for a different environment with extra heat or less beans. You don't have to log an accurate temperature, "cold day", "nice day", "hot day" might be enough to help make sense later why this roast was different.

                  It's another reason that someone else's table of apparent science is useless without knowing all the variables. That and the fact their coffee might taste crummy anyway!

              • #9
                The Costa Rica and Peru roasts turned out to be my best tasting roasts to date so proves you shouldn't get hung up on end weight to determine roast level.

                I would love to get that level of taste with a lower starting roast weight. A question to people that use a similar roast profile to the one I did for the Peru and CR roasts. Do you use similar technique when roasting smaller batches? Eg 200g P2 B, P4 5.30min remaining, P3 FC and P2 after a min until sound of SC? Or for smaller batch sizes, you stick to a simple manual p5 until FC then P2 until sounds of SC?

                I will test both methods but would be interested to hear the experience of others as well

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