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Grind settings - do you need to grind finer for your home roasts?

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  • Steve82
    replied
    Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
    I'm not sure this is the case. Drums have a longer time constant than spouted beds* which in turn are longer than fluidised beds. I have covered some of this previously here.

    * A Corretto roaster approximates a spouted bed. I am assuming most home roasters use a Corretto or one of the commercial mini drum arrangements.
    Yes ive read your hypothesis thanks, im not going claim I understand all of it.

    Ive found the "old school" discussions around coffee roasting Environment Temps (oven temp) to be the most useful in producing well developed / minimum defect coffee.

    In practice ive roasted many 1000s (over 10K) batches of coffee using popcorn machine, coretto, various small drums and KL air roaster (pimped popper).

    My insulated / well pre heated (250C) solid SS gas fired drum (400g rated) with a 250g batch can roast properly developed / not baked / not scorched in 7.5 to 9 mins by treating it more like an oven but i have direct control over thermostat. The drum spins at 65 rpm and the seeds spend more time falling through the air.

    I dont think 15 to 20 min coretto roasts are in any way close to a properly setup commercial spouted bed, this is pretty easy to pick in a blind cupping.
    If you want to try a great fluid bed roast, where the engineer that designed the roaster actually roasts the coffee try getting hold of some Mountain Air coffee from USA, hot air roasting done really well.

    In the end its just cooking, like any other seed / vegetable. Starting with a cold oven Vs hot one does different things and sous vide is different again. One only has to have experimented with different ways of cooking sweet potato to get this.

    Im just a half arsed cook / coffee roaster with tonnes of experimentation under my belt, I will leave complex physics to those better qualified to discuss.






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  • tompoland
    replied
    Loving this thread. Thanks to all.

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  • Lyrebird
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve82 View Post
    well pre heated large mass (drum) inside an oven ... bringing the seeds up to much higher temps a lot quicker.
    I'm not sure this is the case. Drums have a longer time constant than spouted beds* which in turn are longer than fluidised beds. I have covered some of this previously here.

    * A Corretto roaster approximates a spouted bed. I am assuming most home roasters use a Corretto or one of the commercial mini drum arrangements.

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  • Ted2013
    commented on 's reply
    Barry I agree. I find that I have to gradually adjust finer with my home roasts and I do not start until 7 days after roast.

  • itsali
    replied
    Thanks all
    Looks like I have a bit of reading up to do on development time and solubility!

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  • Steve82
    replied
    Firstly important to differentiate between " home roasters". Some are people using commercial / semi commercial machines capable of achieving and maintaining appropriate environment temps for roasting coffee.

    Generally speaking with home roasting needing finer grinds, its more to do with less "overall" developed roasts / much longer times at lower environment temps. The mass of beans (in a low temp / low mass environment) is slowly taken to an end temp (often from a cold start) which creates ones preferred desired brown flavours.

    Compared to starting with a well pre heated large mass (drum) inside an oven where the environment temp (oven temp) is a steady 250C and it has the ability to quickly recover lost heat when a heap of cold hard green seeds are dropped into it, bringing the seeds up to much higher temps a lot quicker. Generally one ends up with a more soluble end product requiring a coarser grind to get a good extraction.

    As wirecutter23 mentioned about relative roast times, 300g of green in the same kind of roasting environment temperature which produced the commercial result in around 10 to 12 mins, should probably be done in around 6 - 8 mins.

    These different methods generate different flavour, creating large differences in flavour outcomes and depending on what one is after / frame of reference will determine whether one is more desirable over the other. Roasts taken to 2nd crack and beyond not so much.

    One mans undrinkable baked is another's ambrosia...








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  • wirecutter23
    commented on 's reply
    It’s my observation that a few commercial roasteries that I know of typically roast a few kilos batch size in around 10-15mins. Normalising for batch size and you get much quicker roasts compared to at home where you usually roast 300-500g in 20mins

  • GrahamK
    replied
    Originally posted by wirecutter23 View Post
    Another factor is roast duration. Typically roasting at home gives way to longer roast durations
    Interesting observation. Roast duration compared to what?

    GrahamK

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  • Thom
    replied
    I have had the same thing with both a behmor and a KL nano. I'll wait to see if the Bullet is any different...

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  • wirecutter23
    replied
    Another factor is roast duration. Typically roasting at home gives way to longer roast durations (especially when normalised for batch size) allowing more time for the beans cell structure to be dismantled

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  • simonsk8r
    replied
    Hmmm.. that is rather interesting... I have found that too! I'm guessing it's how the beans are roasted (or what platform they are roasted on) that has some impact here...

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  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    commented on 's reply
    Lighter roasts will typically require a finer grind (as per post #3 above), and development time seems to also play a role (at least in my experiments).

    Longer resting periods will usually mean that you need to grind (slightly) finer.

  • wirecutter23
    commented on 's reply
    I think type of bean mainly. I also experience a finer grind with home-roasted beans.

  • itsali
    commented on 's reply
    Currently using a Gene cafe and can guarantee the local roasters aren't haha.

    I was just wondering what in the roast affects the grind size.

  • LeroyC
    replied
    What do you roast on? What does your local roaster use by comparison? Of course they are going to be different. It’s not good or bad it just is. Are you happy with both?

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