Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help with roast plan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help with roast plan

    I find myself sometimes randomly trying things, taking notes and waiting weeks to confirm whether or how well it worked. I enjoy it, but I'm sure there is a better way.

    Are there any resources or rules of thumb when starting a roast to guide you regarding what to aim for?

    Brew method, intended roast depth, coffee's origin, elevation, and processing all are things I have, I just don't really know what to do with it. When do I go hot and fast, vs slower and gradual. When do I aim for 15% development vs 25%.

    Also, I cannot for the life of me find a good Artisan log database. I'm guessing it's because all equipment are so different it won't really work that we'll to share them. But surely there is some value, especially for the same equipment and bean.

    If you have a bag of greens and all the info you need. How do you plan your roast?

  • #2
    Not sure what roasting method you use Yochy, I use a Coretto and treat all of my roasts in a similar manner, I start my roasts from dead cold, no preheat.

    Weigh out 750 grams of green beans of choice, note the bean temp usually around 20°C and start time, I use pen and paper, the only monitoring tools I use are a DMM for temp and a wrist watch for time, if the weather is a bit on the cool side set the heat gun on 550°C fan speed 2, if the weather is warmer my start temp is 500°C, I'm aiming to hit first crack at 14 minutes which is usually spot on 200° plus or minus a couple of degree's, if the roast is progressing a little too quickly I will drop the heat gun temp by about 20°, alternatively if it seems a bit slow I will up the temp by a similar amount.

    From first crack I aim for 225° at 19 minutes, where I stop the roast, once again a bit of temp adjustment may be required to slow or speed things up, you do need to be monitoring closely for the duration of the roast, at 225° I stop the process and straight into the cooler.

    Bear in mind this is a process I have worked with over many years, I like a dark roast and this gives me exactly what I want each and every batch.

    Others are much more scientific in their approach than I am, it really is a matter of experimenting, play around with temp, time, roaster configuration and whatever else takes your fancy.

    Once you hit on what you consider your coffee nirvana it will all become second nature, oh, and don't try to overthink the process.

    Good luck, keep us informed.🙂

    As an afterthought, try a shot hot off the press and daily thereafter, it will teach you a lot about beans aging and what your preferences are.

    Comment


    • yochiya
      yochiya commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for this, I really like the simplicity behind the approach and I can imagine it being very consistent.

      I find the idea of a single roast profile to fit most beans well very appealing as an option. I E hear varying opinions in the idea of Omi roasts.

      I imagine you stick to a single brew method for the most part.

      Thanks again

    • Lyrebird
      Lyrebird commented
      Editing a comment
      To illustrate how idiosyncratic this is, my procedure differs from Yelta's at every single point yet we both produce coffee that we like.

    • WhatEverBeansNecessary
      WhatEverBeansNecessary commented
      Editing a comment
      I too like Yelta use a pretty similar baseline for all roasts (although I am not nearly as experienced with the Corretto) - and from there tweak based on different beans like higher density I might go slightly hotter in the beginning or more fruity a little lighter roasted etc.

      what is important is to get to know your setup and the tricky points where you can get into trouble easily. For me and my setup its around the gradual rise to FC and then turning the heat down a little but not too much to get a gradual rise to second crack. I found in my early corretto roasts it all too easy to blast through FC and then over compensate and find the roast stalling somewhat before second crack.

      There are some other points too but it's about getting to know your setup responds to changes.

  • #3
    Lyrebird

    If been following a few of your posts, and can imagine a significantly different approach. There was one in particular with a lot of maths that interested me deeply

    Would be super keen to learn more.

    Comment


    • Lyrebird
      Lyrebird commented
      Editing a comment
      I haven't been able to gather any more data so I have not progressed with this.

  • #4
    Lyrebird

    Very interested to hear more about your roast philosophy and approach.

    I'm finding it suprisingly hard to get good consistent information on how to approach developing a roast profile based on the mentioned parameters.

    Comment


    • Lyrebird
      Lyrebird commented
      Editing a comment
      If you mean the parameters in your first post I am no use to you.

  • #5
    The ultimate outcome obviously is to get the most from the bean for the particular brew method.

    Here is how I approach it at the moment and would be interested to hear where I can improve.

    For higher altitude or more dense beans, I plan an overall longer roast 12-14 mins vs shorter for lower alt beans 10-12.

    I use end of dry as an indicator for the Midway point of my roast. If it's 6 mins, I estimate I will finish in around 12 mins. I adjust temps here to go faster or slower to meet my total roast time target. Smell is valuable for me here and I check the color a few times here.

    I typically drop temperature a tad, about 30s to 1 min before first crack, this is really a guess based in previous roasts and dry end time. For filter roasts I drop more for Espresso I drop less temps.

    I usually aim to end about 1 to 2 mins after fc ends or I hit 220-225c. For filter I might go a touch lighter and espresso deeper.

    I frantically cool.

    This is what I've been doing with ok results for most beans. All of the information leading me to get here were my taste buds and the interweb.

    What can I do to improve my roasting or where can I tweak to highlight the secrets my beans seem to be hiding from me?

    Open to the idea that I'm trying to overcomplicate thing?

    Comment


    • Dimal
      Dimal commented
      Editing a comment
      For higher altitude or more dense beans, I plan an overall longer roast 12-14 mins vs shorter for lower alt beans 10-12.
      You've actually got this particular parameter the wrong way around.
      High altitude denser beans can be pushed more quickly since the higher density allows the heat to penetrate more quickly and evenly. Lower altitude (soft) beans such as some Brazil and Island varieties benefit more from a slower profile since they are less dense which requires a bit more care to ensure that the beans roast evenly throughout and don't scorch.

      Most CS Green beans are medium to high altitude in origin so mostly, you only have to consider the Brazil varieties, etc as "soft-ish" for special attention.

    • yochiya
      yochiya commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Dimal, makes sense.

  • #6
    Originally posted by yochiya View Post

    Open to the idea that I'm trying to overcomplicate thing?
    Its easy to do, constantly changing parameters without meticulous note taking is almost a guarantee for inconsistency, as is changing more than one variable at a time.

    End of dry as an indicator??? I assume this is a feature of your roaster, you still haven't told us what type of roaster your using, difficult for people to advise when they don't have all of the facts.

    As a matter of interest how do you "frantically cool"? using a 20 litre bucket with an exhaust fan is fast and easy, beans are cool to touch within about 90 seconds.

    Comment


    • saeco_user
      saeco_user commented
      Editing a comment
      You should be able to get perfectly tasty and well roasted beans out of the Hive. But, finely tuning a roast profile to bring out particular nuances in a bean might be beyond what it is capable of. Temperature control will be very hard to replicate exactly when it is adjusted by manually lifting the roaster closer to, or further from the flame.

    • yochiya
      yochiya commented
      Editing a comment
      @saeco_user

      Thats correct, interesting thing, my results are consistently really good, but as you pointed out, consistently somewhat inconsistent.

      For me, the Hive is a learning tool and seriously good fun (and the owner / creator is really cool and doing a lot for the coffee industry). I've learned more about coffee roasting, tasting and cupping through it than anything else I have tried which really was the point.

    • saeco_user
      saeco_user commented
      Editing a comment
      The Hive should be more than good enough to determine differences between a light, medium and dark roast. And should be a really useful tool in helping you determine where your preferences lie. I wouldn't be in a rush to move to something with more control unless you are finding the small batch size too limiting / inconvenient.

  • #7
    My approach is to put Behmor basket, tray and beans in the sun for 20 minutes. Preheat for 2 to 3 mins. Roast on manual P5 for 10 mins then to P4. Hit cool well into FC after checking colour and smell. Also use external fan. Total time usually between 11 1/2 and 12 1/2 min. Never had an unacceptable roast.

    Comment


    • saeco_user
      saeco_user commented
      Editing a comment
      You're obviously not roasting in Melbourne

  • #8
    WhatEverBeansNecessary

    Thanks for chiming in,

    Re-reading Yelta's post it seems that the determining factor of when to drop and start cooling is bean temperature + time.

    Seems there are a variety of strategies to end a roast, all correlated:
    - Time after FC
    - Bean Temp
    - Development Ratio
    - Color / Smell

    When do you decide to end a roast on your 'baseline' roast?

    Comment


    • WhatEverBeansNecessary
      WhatEverBeansNecessary commented
      Editing a comment
      On the Corretto it's all based on temperature from the probe and it takes a lot of the 'guesswork' out of it. Normally for my setup it's 209 degrees +/- 1 degree.It's important to note the temperatures are very setup reliant and my 209 degrees might be anothers 215 etc. Normally I will aim for this to occur in about 4 ish minutes post FC and beans are a medium roast.

      For the Behmor it's probably more correlated to time as the temperature sensor isn't as reliable in the Corretto.

      There are a few other indicators like FC has completely stopped. Yet to reach SC. If you can get between those two you are almost guaranteed a medium roast.

  • #9
    Just keep playing around with your setup until you get something you like and can replicate

    Comment

    Working...
    X