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  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/15#20 date=1158146183
    So as to that if its a dual boiler or a single boler not HX you could change the steam pressure but not changing the grouphead tempreture
    Well..... that depends!

    Some dual boilers use the steam boiler to pre-heat the water which passes into the brew boiler (this is the case with some prosumer dual boiler machines - dont know of any commercial ones that do this!)

    So with this type any changes in steam boiler temp affects the temp of the brew boiler (and the recovery time of the brew boiler).... Remember that prosumer machines have boilers 10% the size of mine..... and smaller heaters to boot (they have to run two boilers off 10 Amps where mine runs off a 25 Amp circuit for one boiler).... with these - changing steam boiler characteristics will have some effect on the brew boiler.

    The reason that the water to the brew boiler is preheated is to help that boiler get the volume of water to brew temp faster (because of the small element - all caused by the fact that these machines MUST plug into a 10 Amp outlet for consumer convenience.

    Some prosumer machines (and commercial machines) which have two totally seperate boilers would have no problem if you increased the steam boiler pressure.

    Out of interest, whilst purchasing my grean bean supply today, I checked out the latest commercial high volume 3 group.....

    It has a boiler per group - yep thats right 3 boilers for brewing - and I assume a large boiler for steaming,,,,,, ;D

    Requires at least a 30 amp supply (three phase recommended).....

    But still doesnt look half as good as my La Cimbali!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    So as to that if its a dual boiler or a single boler not HX you could change the steam pressure but not changing the grouphead tempreture

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/15#17 date=1158139125
    hey, would it be possible to change the pressure for steaming on the minore or even on any boilers?
    Yep, on all HX machines the pressure in the boiler can be adjusted (they use a pressurestat rather than a thermostat)

    BUT :-/

    there is a direct link between pressure and the temp of the water in the boiler (mine runs 1.1 Bar which equates to a temp of 120 deg C)

    Now if I up the pressure - mine can go up to 1.8 bar - it will increase the water (and steam temp)..

    The water for the group is heated by a heat exchanger in the boiler (the quantity of heat transferred depends on the percentage of the heat exchanger in water and in steam within the boiler AND the temp of the boiler.....

    So increase boiler pressure = increase in boiler temp = increase in temp to the group head (and possibly burnt coffee) >..... this can be adjusted by "tuning" the process but is a complex proceedure. (reducing the temp of the boiler will likewise reduce the group temp)...

    So, yes it can be done (but unless you REALLY know what you are doing) I wouldnt!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/15#17 date=1158139125
    hey, would it be possible to change the pressure for steaming on the minore or even on any boilers?
    Easily done via adjustment of pressurestat...but generally rarely required...A change of boiler pressure will have an impact on grouphead temperature....which may well not be desired...

    2mcm


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  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    hey, would it be possible to change the pressure for steaming on the minore or even on any boilers?

    Leave a comment:


  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#14 date=1157628430
    Your using it for home?!?!? Probably to big for average people to have a machine that big on a kitchen bench
    Cimbali 2-groups make great home machines! ;D ;D

    Java "Pets his M-28 2-group" phile

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#14 date=1157628430
    Which model did you get?
    It is big..... but as I said, it looks really impressive (even my wife likes it )

    If you check my sig below it is the La Cimbali M20 2 group Dosatron....

    Kinda like the La Cimbali DT1 (but on steroids!!!)

    Has volumetric dosing (which can be programmed by the user) - nice - but I prefer manually stoping the flow.

    Auto boiler fill (needs to be connected direct to the water supply and drain) and of course a rotary pump

    Only about 80cm wide and weighs a tiny 70Kg or so :

    But its great ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Which model did you get?

    So much power consumption But would be nice to play with one  :P

    Your using it for home?!?!? Probably to big for average people to have a machine that big on a kitchen bench

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#12 date=1157623295
    Wow.. 17L and 4KW? Thats huge... isnt that more then enough?
    Eh..... Yep ;D

    But it is a lovely toy!! ;D

    I chose it because:
    It makes great coffee
    Its a La Cimbali
    It looks impressive
    Used 2 group commercials go for a good price (most prefer 1 group for home use!)

    And since its designed to make coffees non stop 24/7 steaming (even with two four hole nozzles on the wands) is no drama!!

    Re the Minore I followed the link - thanks Belinda - and they mention that it has some recovery problems even with a two hole.... and because the brew water is drawn through the steam boiler - if the steam boiler temp drops it will affect the brew temp....

    Id say you might get away with a four hole for one jug but you would then have to wait for it to recover before brewing (or producing more steam).....

    The steam boiler is 1.7 L (bit smaller than my 17L ) and they comment that they would have liked a bigger element (which improves recovery time).... I can draw off 1 L of boiling water and the boiler is back up to temp/pressure in about 15 secs (basically time to reheat 1 L of cold water to 120 Deg C)....

    Last weekend we had a party here... I was turning out 4 coffees (mostly latte and caps ) about every minute!

    Ah I love the power of the La Cimbali (pity about the cost of running it )

    Leave a comment:


  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Wow.. 17L and 4KW? Thats huge... isnt that more then enough?

    Leave a comment:


  • Corretto
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#9 date=1157621897
    What about a dual boiler like the Minore?
    I thought it matains the pressure from 1-1.5bars.

    Yes, the Minore could definitely handle a 4 hole steam tip. Ive never used one on mine but it keeps on pumping out the steam like a steam engine ;D

    check out http://www.home-barista.com/brewtus-buyers-guide.html

    Belinda

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#9 date=1157621897
    What about a dual boiler like the Minore?
    I thought it matains the pressure from 1-1.5bars.

    Not sure - depends on the size of the boiler and the capacity of the heater element to maintain pressure - that defines how much steam it can CONTINUE to produce... :-/

    My La Cimbali has a 17 litre boiler and as soon as the pressure starts to fall it cuts in 4 KW of heating (and will run two 4 hole wands at the same time for as long as you like!!!!) Only problem- paying for the electricity?

    The heater is probably 2-3 time larger than even the prosumer machines and the boiler is at least 5 times larger (thats a lot of water already heated to 120 deg C just waiting to turn into steam!!!!)

    Someone with a Minore might be able to give you a more accurate answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    What about a dual boiler like the Minore?
    I thought it matains the pressure from 1-1.5bars.

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1157414445/0#7 date=1157615114
    So mutiple tips steam the milk faster?
    Yes.... but :-/

    They require a greater volume of steam (commercial HX machines normally have four holes - and they are quite large holes)....

    If your boiler cant maintain the pressure (1-1.5 Bar normally) then the milk texturing with more holes will be worse and the milk wont heat much faster either.

    As a reference the standard La Cimbali 4 hole tip takes about 30 seconds for a 600ml jug whereas the two hole "coffee parts" takes well over a minute.

    Less holes is better for small volumes on a HX if you are finding the milk is getting too hot before you can texture it properly...

    I doubt any machine other than a HX could provide enough steam for a 4 hole!

    Leave a comment:


  • Coffee_Kid
    replied
    Re: Cool Touch steam wand

    So mutiple tips steam the milk faster?

    Leave a comment:

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