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  • re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

    Hi Everyone, Im hoping that someone out there with a big heart can help me from my frothing nightmare.

    I have a Seaco with the pannarelo steam wand.....and Im kicking myself that I didnt think to research this part of the machine before I purchased it!!!!

    It should be called a bubble machine, as its all I get, hard dry fluff, that I try to hide by spinning it after.

    I have many types of jugs, a thermometer, and I know the method. I even remember that it worked for awhile when I first bought the machine.(2 months ago). But, suddenly, no matter what all I could get was huge loud boiling bubbles,, no whirlpool, and over flow before it got to decent temperature. I sent the machine to be `fixed` but it has come back no better.

    I am not sure if it is the frothing wand or the too wet steam or what is going on. I also wonder if water is getting in, thus upping the volume of the milk, but I dont think so.

    Is there anything thing I can do, I dont mind buying another attachment or getting one custom fitted as I primarily purchased this machine for the milk drink side....even though I forgot about this when I was buying it!!!! I didnt realise that the wand is so different, or that I was getting a weird one!!

    Thanks in advance, Sharon

  • #2
    Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

    Hi Sharon and welcome to CoffeeSnobs.

    I wonder is you bought this machine as a result of the Choice recommendation? :

    Super automatics in general produce OK (not brilliant by any means) espressos and the milk texturing leaves a lot to be desired. They are also renowned for spending quite a bit of time in for maintenance.... costing a lot of dollars (as in hundreds per year).... so commiserations .

    Re the pannarelo system, I doubt there is a replacement which would fit it and I assume it is not possible to remove the end of the wand either.

    I think there are some other members who have Saeco super autos - one of them might be able to give you some advice on getting the best possible from the machine..... Ill keep my fingers crossed for you....

    And by the way, there is a reason why you see lots of these for sale on Evilbay.... as you have found out.

    Good Luck!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

      I used a Saeco superauto in a luxury B&B on my honeymoon earlier this year. I found that one trick was to hold a finger over the little hole in the side of the wand that sucks air in. Difficult with only two hands though. Tape would be much easier though. Then you can surf the tip on the milk surface without blowing too many bubbles.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

        Hi Sharon! and welcome to Coffee Snobs!

        I have a Saeco Incanto deluxe so I will try and help you where I can.

        1. You can actually get a different part of the panarello, the black part that the silver part of the steam wand attaches to. It allows heaps more steam to vent through it. You will have to go to Saeco for that one, and ask them for the upgraded part.

        2. There is a hole in the panarello. You have to have this facing you and kept CLEARED of any milk residue. This allows it to breath better. If it becomes blocked, you wont have any steam at all.

        3. Allow the steam wand to build up pressure before you froth your milk. Let the steam come through, you will notice a BIG difference. This takes about 10 seconds or more. It will come out in a little puff and there is water too, but thats only at the start and then it steadily becomes heavier. Turn it off before you place the jug underneath and then turn it back on. This should help. Keep the tip of the panarello in the milk just below the surface.

        I have had all sorts of problems with mine, it went back twice and the third time I threatened to throw it at them.
        The steaming on mine is brilliant, I get the whirlpool action going and it does the best latte froth! <= and that is saying alot for this machine  :P

        If I can help you with anything or advice please ask away, I am happy to help.

        -Linda

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

          Originally posted by JavaB link=1179707916/0#1 date=1179717818
          Hi Sharon and welcome to CoffeeSnobs.

          I wonder is you bought this machine as a result of the Choice recommendation? :

          Super automatics in general produce OK (not brilliant by any means) espressos and the milk texturing leaves a lot to be desired. They are also renowned for spending quite a bit of time in for maintenance.... costing a lot of dollars (as in hundreds per year).... so commiserations .

          Re the pannarelo system, I doubt there is a replacement which would fit it and I assume it is not possible to remove the end of the wand either.

          I think there are some other members who have Saeco super autos - one of them might be able to give you some advice on getting the best possible from the machine..... Ill keep my fingers crossed for you....

          And by the way, there is a reason why you see lots of these for sale on Evilbay.... as you have found out.

          Good Luck!
          No, didnt read it in choice....but had my brain wired wrong when I bought it. I focused on the no work and ease of it. I thought the coffee part was ok and forgot that the whole reason I love my coffeee is due to the milk being done properly in a good cafe. I really forgot, and took it forgranted that the milk would be easy.

          Well, I am paying for it with stress I must say! I will see what options I have and hopefully either sell or learn to love it!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

            Originally posted by Maccas_chicka link=1179707916/0#3 date=1179730545
            Hi Sharon! and welcome to Coffee Snobs!

            I have a Saeco Incanto deluxe so I will try and help you where I can.

            1. You can actually get a different part of the panarello, the black part that the silver part of the steam wand attaches to. It allows heaps more steam to vent through it. You will have to go to Saeco for that one, and ask them for the upgraded part.

            2. There is a hole in the panarello. You have to have this facing you and kept CLEARED of any milk residue. This allows it to breath better. If it becomes blocked, you wont have any steam at all.

            3. Allow the steam wand to build up pressure before you froth your milk. Let the steam come through, you will notice a BIG difference. This takes about 10 seconds or more. It will come out in a little puff and there is water too, but thats only at the start and then it steadily becomes heavier. Turn it off before you place the jug underneath and then turn it back on. This should help. Keep the tip of the panarello in the milk just below the surface.

            I have had all sorts of problems with mine, it went back twice and the third time I threatened to throw it at them.
            The steaming on mine is brilliant, I get the whirlpool action going and it does the best latte froth! <= and that is saying alot for this machine  :P

            If I can help you with anything or advice please ask away, I am happy to help.

            -Linda

            I want to hug you!!!! Its late now, I would love to get back to you asap to really grill you!!!

            Should the hole be blocked or kept open?

            How is there an upgrade. Mine has just come back from Saeco and they werec vague about what they did to be honest. I complained about the frothing and they seemed to do something. Do you think mine already has the upgraded plastic thing inside being new? What does the upgrade cost, will they know what I am talking about.

            The funny thing is, at first my milk was almost micro froth, good enough to have me smug all day and very pleased with my lot in life. But overnight my machine turned into a bubble machine and I never got the whirlpool again. Its like banging your head against a brick wall all day. Of course no one irl wants to know about it, and think Im mad. But, Im obsessed now because it was so close and then....gone!

            So Im thinking, do I sell and get a manual....they look scary and my wallet will hurt and what if thats a flop too. Im trying to balance my love of easy with my love of microfroth...I really thought I could have both with my Saeco.

            I have about 4 different sized jugs, and am even trying to put tooth picks in the end of my wand....nothing makes a difference.

            The WORST thing, the very worst, is that the milk bubbles up over the rim before the temp is even near where it should be. So I lower the tip and the whole thing still bubbles like there is a kid blowing his milkshake at Mc Donalds. Where is all this extra volume coming from?

            Lastly, are we the only 2 here with these machines. I raelly get the condolences vibe coming thru from the majority of coffee lovers on this site. Why didnt any of this show up when I googled the machine!!!! >

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

              Originally posted by Matt King link=1179707916/0#2 date=1179727139
              I used a Saeco superauto in a luxury B&B on my honeymoon earlier this year. I found that one trick was to hold a finger over the little hole in the side of the wand that sucks air in. Difficult with only two hands though. Tape would be much easier though. Then you can surf the tip on the milk surface without blowing too many bubbles.
              I cant believe there is a hole and I never would have guessed in a million years. So you think its better to block this????

              I will try it. Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                Hi Sharon!

                No.
                The hole MUST be kept open! Free from milk residue, AND any obstacles (including fingers!!! and/or tape   )

                This allows the wand to breathe, and produce better steam. That is why it is better to keep the hole facing you so you can see the moisture coming through it.
                Purge after use aswell....always.

                Yes I will agree with the vagueness there at Saeco...When I took it back after the second time I had a technician actually come out and see me in person. They replaced the grinder in it for some unknown reason, and didnt set it right and all my pucks were coming out like mud. It was then he said "Uhm no that shouldnt be doing that" and adjusted it there and then. He then said "There is a newer steam part" (the black bit on it) and went ahead and put that on it too...all for free (so it should have been!!!)
                If and when you go back to Saeco...DEMAND, but nicely mind you, that they fix the steam wand with the newer part.

                -Linda

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                  Linda,
                  hi, the guys at Saeco said that only the tiny O ring is new because the old ones kept popping off!!!!! So maybe this is what you meant. It fits onto the black thread part.

                  Regards Sharon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                    Originally posted by Sharon link=1179707916/0#8 date=1179814767
                    Linda,
                    hi, the guys at Saeco said that only the tiny O ring is new because the old ones kept popping off!!!!! So maybe this is what you meant. It fits onto the black thread part.
                    Regards Sharon
                    Hi Sharon!

                    Yes it does have this problem...still. It occasionally comes off because of the amount of pressure it generates. I havent had it come off in a while though.
                    I am pretty sure that the technician replaced the black part with a newer version of what was on it, as it gives better pressure.

                    Again, keep the panarello clear of any residue, and make sure to take it off and clean it, it does become blocked up at the bottom with milk.

                    -Linda

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                      hi Sharon, if your post came up a week earlier, I might consider not buying this machine, unfortunately I bought the Incanto classic last week!

                      I have the similar problem in frothing milk too, foam overflowing from the rim but the the milk temperature was just "warm". After a weeks trial and error, Ive make a little improvement... just a little but a good start I think, at least the milk is hot while the foam reach the rim
                      Basically my method is quite similar to what Macca_chicka mentioned,

                      1. Opened the steam knob and let it run until strong steam comes out then close it
                      2. Fill the jug with 1/3 of cold milk
                      3. Instead of immersing the nozzle just below the milk surface, place it as close to the bottom of the container as posssible
                      4. move the container in a circular motion while steaming

                      then youll get hot enough milk and less volume foam

                      As I said, its just a "little" improvement but Ill keep trying.
                      Saecos coffee machine is a pretty good, one, I used it before so just give some time to familiar with it!


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                        Originally posted by Phantom link=1179707916/0#10 date=1180360913
                        hi Sharon, if your post came up a week earlier, I might consider not buying this machine, unfortunately I bought the Incanto classic last week!

                        I have the similar problem in frothing milk too, foam overflowing from the rim but the the milk temperature was just "warm". After  a weeks trial and error, Ive make a little improvement... just a little but a good start I think, at least the milk is hot while the foam reach the rim
                        Basically my method is quite similar to what Macca_chicka mentioned,

                        1. Opened the steam knob and let it run until strong steam comes out then close it
                        2. Fill the jug with 1/3 of cold milk
                        3. Instead of immersing the nozzle just below the milk surface, place it as close to the bottom of the container as posssible
                        4. move the container in a circular motion while steaming

                        then youll get hot enough milk and less volume foam

                        As I said, its just a "little" improvement but Ill keep trying.
                        Saecos coffee machine is a pretty good, one, I used it before so just give some time to familiar with it!

                        Hi Phantom,
                        I guess both of us wont be running out to buy tatslotto tickets then hey??? I also found out some pretty important facts just a week or so after buying this machine. The funny thing is, when I googled the Saeco, all I saw were pretty happy coffee drinkers raving their haeds off! No one ever mentioned the milk bit and I didnt know to question this either. All I concintrated on was that it had a twin boiler and no real down time from the coffee part to the milk part!!!!

                        I also have a few new tricks, but still feel the stress everytime Im steaming....its a love hate hate relationship for sure! I have many different sizes of jugs and I know now to fill it less than half, so maybe a third. I usually put the jug in the freezer for awhile. I usually fill my drinking cup with boiling water from a kettle before I start the milk to keep everything hot. I steam the milk before I do the coffee because to my mind I want the crema on the coffee to be just done before I pour the milk???

                        In the past everything bubbled no matter what methos I used eg whirlpool on top or stay deep and swirl the jug. For me, blocking the pin sized hole on the wand seems to help eliminate this problem. I dont know why, or if it just like Dumbo`s magic feather, but it seems to let me work without heaps of bath bubbles. Mind you I try to use a big jug to allow for plenty of swirl space and I tilt the jug almost on its side at times. So I get the whirlpool and things look good, but it is still a dry merange on top. Most often I play with it to hide the dry merange and put chocolate on top to in part comoflague the not perfect froth. Sometimes its even good and hits the spot first thing in the morning.

                        See, the machine is easy....that cant be forgotten in the equation. The equation is based on cost and effort. I have to be sure that I am willing to up the cost and more importantly the extra effort before I go kicking this machine to the curb. For me, doing a course will be the first step before I change or upgrade anything, because there is no need upgrading if I cant be bothered with the hassle.

                        Meanwhile, this Seaco seems to do better with cetain coffee beans in terms of taste. eg I bought the same beans as my favourite cafe (from them) and it tasted average on my machine. Then I bought some from the supermarket and to my surprise they taste much better.

                        Lastly, I always use a thermometer for my milk.

                        Let me know how you fare as time goes on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                          I also had a problem with the panarello - it simply would heat up the milk but no froth! Realised after much stuffing around that the black piece inside the chrome tube had slipped. The way to fix it was push the black piece down into the tube so that around 1 mm pokes out the bottom. Since then, I have been back to perfect froth. Really simple in the end!
                          I hope this helps someone - it took me 2 weeks to work it out!
                          (thanks Ron at Saeco spare parts who made the suggestion to me)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                            I simply took the black panarello wand off altogether and just used the chrome tube to froth the milk. It works perfectly and no need to clean the useless black wand.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: re Saeco Incanto- hell to froth

                              Hi Sharon,I had a saeco incanto and had the same problems,In the end I offloaded it on ebay and bought a rancilio sylvia with rocky grinder for roughly half the price of a flash saeco.What a machine,it took a while to get the hang of it,but am now making  very nice espressos,and even some latte art!Their is more work involved as it is not automatic,but when tasting that coffee it all seems worthwhile
                              Cheers Terry

                              Comment

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