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  • Companies cave to permeate pressure

    CH9 - A Current Affair
    Story Monday, June 25, 2012

    Our long-running campaign for better milk exposed the industry’s dirty little secret – now two major producers have ditched the controversial additive and the push is on for better labelling practices.

    Permeate is usually added to milk to standardise fat and protein levels.

    Labelling laws do not require the amount of permeate in milk to be disclosed but industry sources have suggested it could be as high as 12-16 per cent in some milk brands.

    So what exactly is permeate?

    Its a by-product thats made during the manufacture of dairy products including cheese and, while there are no known health risks associated with adding it to milk, its costing shoppers thousands.

    Milk from the farm costs processors about 50 cents a litre, while permeate costs only half that amount - just 18 cents a litre.

    Not only does its addition to milk reduce costs, but it eliminates the need to dispose of the permeate.

    Here is a list of permeate-free milk available in Australia:


    Paul’s Milk
    Pura Milk
    A2 Milk
    Ashgrove Farm Fresh
    Aussie Farmers Direct
    Bannister Downs Farm
    Country Valley
    Maleny Dairies
    Norco
    Peel Valley Dairy
    ProCal
    Udder Farm
    Dairy Farmers

    Woolworths and Coles are also looking at making their own branded milk permeate free.

    from:
    http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/beauty/8489362/companies-cave-to-permeate-pressure

  • #2
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    if someone wants to explain to me ACAs vendetta against permeate, im all ears - it seems to me that this horse has been well and truly flogged...

    Originally posted by 6D4248552C0 link=1340622249/0#0 date=1340622249
    Not only does its addition to milk reduce costs, but it eliminates the need to dispose of the permeate.
    idk, sounds like a win-win to me. unless you as a customer feel aggrieved paying "full price" for something thats semi-reconstituted, then getting very cheap and very consistent milk year round without the processing plants being left to dispose of the permeate elsewhere sounds good to me.

    of course, i use the term "full price" loosely - most of the permeates come in at ~$1/L while the nons such as A2, pura, etc are closer to double that (i seem to recall the permeates being $3/3L while the pura was more like $5.50/3L)

    my opinion though is quite moot as i dont drink dairy (bonsoy or so-good barista please). in my past life, however, when i used to go through a litre and a half a day, the non-permeates were never really good enough to justify the price difference - while they were almost always better, there was a lot more variance in quality and not really good enough to justify the extra $$$.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

      Originally posted by 7E7A697762447674697572757C441B0 link=1340622249/1#1 date=1340627031
      if someone wants to explain to me ACAs vendetta against permeate, im all ears - it seems to me that this horse has been well and truly flogged...
      Originally posted by 6A454F522B0 link=1340622249/0#0 date=1340622249
      Labelling laws do not require the amount of permeate in milk to be disclosed but industry sources have suggested it could be as high as 12-16 per cent in some milk brands.
      Im not certain that they need to disclose permeate at all?  :-/

      You have the right to know what youre buying. Good enough explanation for me...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

        Permeate free milk does not exist, its like saying water free juice, it wouldnt be juice, it would be in powder form

        Are you guys also against cream (fat) and retentate (protien) being added? So that the product actualy resembles the nutritional information label? Or do you think you should just get whatever and take the label off? Do you understand the need to standardize? I think there is allot of misinformation going around

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

          Originally posted by 5E7A7F787E727D130 link=1340622249/3#3 date=1340660681
          I think there is allot of misinformation going around
          And I think a lot of misinformation and disinformation is spread by industry insiders who stand to profit by it. Perhaps for purposes of transparency you would care to tell us what your relationship to the milk industry is.


          Java "Inquiring minds want to know" phile
          Toys! I must have new toys!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

            Originally posted by 1B3027302139383D34510 link=1340622249/4#4 date=1340661072
            ....Perhaps for purposes of transparency you would care to tell us what your relationship to the milk industry is.
            Hes the milkman. He brings the milk. Derr.

            My logic is that if permate is extracted from milk, then added back to milk, then its just part of the milk, and theres nothing to be upset about.

            Also... nothing on TT/ACA is true. Ever.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

              It would be cheaper to just homogenize and pasteurise whatever comes of the farm, and bottle it, but you would have no idea what you were getting,
              I am a standardization technician (process worker)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                Originally posted by 43617C6D5B7C71646D3B080 link=1340622249/5#5 date=1340661510
                My logic is that if permate is extracted from milk, then added back to milk, then its just part of the milk, and theres nothing to be upset about.
                The problem is is that the permeate they are using is not extracted from milk. It is a by-product of the cheese industry and is whey permeate, not milk permeate. As such it is a different product with a different composition from the permeate that is produced from milk.

                Calling whey permeate a milk by-product is at best disinformation and at worst a flat out lie.


                Java "No connection to the dairy industry or the regulators of same" phile
                Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                  Originally posted by 75574A5B6D4A47525B0D3E0 link=1340622249/5#5 date=1340661510
                  My logic is that if permate is extracted from milk, then added back to milk, then its just part of the milk, and theres nothing to be upset about.
                  I dont agree with that logic. Any milk processing alters the quality. Ask anyone who is used to farm-fresh milk (straight from the cow). I dont agree that taking something out and then putting it back results in what you started with. There is processing involved in removing these milk solids, in the case of permeate, it is the product of ultrafiltration.

                  According to the FAO: "Membrane filtration technology allows milk components used in making cheese to be concentrated (casein, butterfat) while producing a by-product referred to as milk permeate which contains the lactose, and some of the soluble proteins / minerals. This technology reduces the amount of water and lactose that is shipped to a cheese processing plant and reduces their effluent waste stream. Milk permeate is high in lactose, soluble proteins and minerals and can be used as a source of dietary energy, protein and mineral in livestock feeding programs."

                  So it seems that adding permeate is a means of re-using an otherwise waste product and deemed harmless. To date, I havent believed adding permeate to be a problem but if it isnt, why isnt there full disclosure on all labels.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                    Originally posted by 23293C2B2B243036450 link=1340622249/8#8 date=1340663381
                    I havent believed adding permeate to be a problem but if it isnt, why isnt there full disclosure on all labels.
                    Exactly. The bottom line is truth in labeling. Stop lying to us via omission and be upfront and completely truthful about whats in the foods/products you sell!



                    Java "With-out truthful and completely accurate labels consumers by definition can not make a truly informed decision!" phile
                    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                      "Whey permeate" is a different story, aca and that list of so called permeate-free companies are profiteering from the confusion and nothing more

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                        Originally posted by 694D484F49454A240 link=1340622249/10#10 date=1340665288
                        "Whey permeate" is a different story, aca and that list of so called permeate-free companies are profiteering from the confusion and nothing more
                        Baloney. While your industry simply calls their additive permeate they admit they use permeate which is a by-product of the cheese making process. Hence by definition it is whey permeate, not milk permeate.


                        Java "Shining the light into dark corners" phile
                        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                          Originally posted by 143F283F2E3637323B5E0 link=1340622249/9#9 date=1340664096
                          Originally posted by 23293C2B2B243036450 link=1340622249/8#8 date=1340663381
                          I havent believed adding permeate to be a problem but if it isnt, why isnt there full disclosure on all labels.
                          Exactly. The bottom line is truth in labeling. Stop lying to us via omission and be upfront and completely truthful about whats in the foods/products you sell!



                          Java "With-out truthful and completely accurate labels consumers by definition can not make a truly informed decision!" phile
                          by that token, based on the way aca have mercilessly run and re-run this same "story" over the years, i would like to know if anyone associated with aca has any associations with any of the milk companies that they push as being permeate free, or if any money has changed hands in order to get these stories on air.

                          but yes, more information for the consumer is great so long as they know what it actually means - a lot of the talk around permeate is that its bad, but nobody ever seems to say why. if this generates an irrational fear and i cant get $1/L milk that is of a very consistent quality from bottle to bottle just because the market thinks that permeate is undesirable i will be very disappointed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                            Heres the process for dummies: milk permeate: take raw milk, spin it at 2500rpms and the heavy(skim) flings to the out side and the light(cream) stays in the middle. Take the skim, pump it into a filter(membrains) at 4.3bar and smaller(permeate) travels threw faster than the larger(protien/retentate) you now have 5 products (raw milk, cream, skim, retentate, permeate) to mix to a desired concentration for a specific product (full cream, reduced fat, no fat etc)
                            Whey permeate : take raw milk, add some cream and protien(previously extracted) then add some starter culture etc heat it up, presto curds and whey. Take the whey, stick it in a spinner 2500rpms presto whey cream, whey skim, take whey skim, push it into filter presto whey protien and whey permeate ,
                            For the record , all 11 ingredients have value and specific markets, there is no waste!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

                              Wow. Lots of discussion.

                              I must state at this point I am not going to offer opinions on this topic as I work for one of the big milk players, but we were told of this impending announcement recently and I am interested to see the continuing debate.

                              Brett.

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