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Companies cave to permeate pressure

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  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by jur View Post
    I was dismayed to discover that the milk processing industry has developed the dubious process of splitting milk into as many as possible components, then adding them back together as they see fit and call this derivative product "milk".

    I admit that it vaguely still tastes like milk but it isn't "milk". It's a milk derivative product.

    I'd rather drink unpasteurized pure fresh milk. The need for pasteurization is long gone but the milk industry with their huge vested interests will and do fight such possibility tooth and nail. Thankfully we have been able to obtain pure fresh unpasteurized real milk for years now.

    Read "The Untold Story of Milk". Fascinating reading.
    Hi Jur

    Although it has been a while since this post, I just have to comment. Sometime between 1960 to 1964 Dairy Farmers NSW obtained the milk from the farm over the back fence. Not to pick on them specifically, as the same thing seemed to be happening all over Oz at the time. The difference in everything was immediate and staggering. Cream went down to 15%, taste disappeared, texture was wrong. The only +ve was it kept for longer.

    The farm was herds of Jersey (50 /50 cream and milk) & Guernsey (about 60 to 70% cream - truly awesome). In the early '70's when I revisited to area I caught up with the farmer. According to him, the feed was so good that they always generated a lot more cream than most nearby farms. He reckoned DF removed the cream to sell it separately. When they homogenised it they also added "something else" to it. That is where he noticed the flavour change. I have no idea what that was, however the result was undrinkable for a country boy used to the real stuff. It literally did not even taste anything like the milk I grew up with.

    Although I clearly do not know what they did, that may have been when the rot started as when I was living in Wagga (as a toddler - up to 1960) we used to be able to drink the stuff as delivered by the local milkman. Sometime after the move to the coast, it was literally not possible. When we went back to Wagga visiting - guess what - the local farmers & their friends did not drink the milkman stuff either.

    Apart from a few stand outs over the many years and states since, most "bulk / supermarket milk" does not seem to come from a cow at all.

    Mind you, pure Jersey / Guernsey is almost impossible to use in coffee as it overwhelms all but the (insert US chain of horrors here) level of burnt over roasted paint stripper.

    The other issue: permeate. FWIW, whilst I was living in the US (2002 to 4) I went through a massive amount of grief trying to find decent milk. I noticed there was an inverse link between the amount of permeate in the milk and the quality (texture and sweetness) of the microfoam in my lattes. More than 5% (just to place a guesstimate here) permeate and I could not get the pickup in sweetness that I was used to. It still defeats me why milk production factories go to so much trouble to separate everything out and then add it back in to obtain so-called "consistency". It still isn't consistent anyway dudes! Here in WA we have just emerged from the dreaded three weeks change in seasons when microfoam is difficult. IMHO it is far more likely that they only put back the bare minimum of expensive stuff (like cream) and flog off everything else that moves through the doors.

    Just my 2 cents.

    TampIt
    Last edited by TampIt; 3 November 2013, 04:54 PM.

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  • NewSnob
    replied
    This might explain the issue. MILK, WHITE LIES & PERMEATE | The Checkout | Thursdays, 8pm on ABC1 - YouTube

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  • kayleno
    replied
    There seems to be more yellow stickers in milk aisles now than in the tour de france with the yellow jersey. Not sure wo is the winner here, suspect the giant retailers.

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  • Milkman
    replied
    Well like allot of other now illegal practices, raw milk sales were responsible for unnecessary death. Soo take your chances,. Sure I don't have a problem with drinking raw milk, but statistically, it would be irresponsible to feed it to my kids. I don't have a problem with not wearing a helmet on my bike either, but wow it actually saves lives! Maybe not my life, maybe not yours, but someone out there is alive now because of one

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  • neofelis
    replied
    As long as I can get $1/lt milk im a happy boy as this seems affordable to me as I use so much of it a week!

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  • doommachine
    replied
    It's curious that this all comes down to label manipulation. I do wonder when this might start happening with fruit and meat.. I mean you don't know what percentage fat your steak is, do you?

    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Here is a good story shown on the ABC Landline documentary about cottage industries doing things their own way and filling in a niche market such as premium/specialty cafes.
    I applaud them for doing the hard work of producing and packaging as well as marketing their own milk.

    The latter part of the show touches on the low unsustainable prices paid to farmers for discounted milk by the two main bigwigs namely Woolworths and Coles.
    Some farmers require at least 40 cents per litre, others 50 cents per litre to be sustainable. 37 cents a litre offered is not on.

    Most of us here can do our part to support niche dairy farmers. Not only does quality milk complement a well made coffee, the lack of permeate less processing is also a bonus.

    ABC iview

    Leave a comment:


  • jur
    replied
    I was dismayed to discover that the milk processing industry has developed the dubious process of splitting milk into as many as possible components, then adding them back together as they see fit and call this derivative product "milk".

    I admit that it vaguely still tastes like milk but it isn't "milk". It's a milk derivative product.

    I'd rather drink unpasteurized pure fresh milk. The need for pasteurization is long gone but the milk industry with their huge vested interests will and do fight such possibility tooth and nail. Thankfully we have been able to obtain pure fresh unpasteurized real milk for years now.

    Read "The Untold Story of Milk". Fascinating reading.

    Leave a comment:


  • lilmeh
    replied
    I'm catching up on all the CS threads I haven't read for awhile and just wanted to say, as a consumer, all this talk about what milk is and what milk isn't is making me realise if I actually knew exactly what's in it, I wouldn't like "milk".
    So for that, I'm actually grateful there isn't more information but maybe that's just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Milkman
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    Well,.... adding "whey permeate" is actually already illegal, and unless the offenders are adding melamine, to disguise the loss of protien (eg adding 10% milk permeate, to the average 3.30% protien raw milk, would result in 2.97% protien levels) well under the legal lower limit of 3.2%....(and these results are fairly heavily policed).. Im back to thinking this was nothing but a scare campaign.....any substantual permeate addition would be blatantly obvious, rounding milk to the lower limit of 3.2 would save maybe 3%retentate over the whole year, and that is already clearly displayed on the nutritional info panel.....what a beat up, just buy 3.3%protein+  full cream milk.. Easy

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  • Milkman
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    Rather than running our UF, another UF In a separate plant (cheese plant) makes more, and we ship it across. We are now not adding permeate, because we are not pulling skim
    Apart the begin with, confusing I know... But thats politics 

    (sorry , UF is ,ultra filtration, where I mention pushing skim threw a filter membranes @ 4.3 bar)

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  • Milkman
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    If you scroll up or down you will find a post relating to the process of making milk retentate title here is the process for dummies its not that it is a bad thing, its just that is an extra thing, where as before, the ingredients were already on hand

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  • Bosco_Lever
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    Originally posted by 0E2A2F282E222D430 link=1340622249/49#49 date=1341043961
    UPDATE; in wake of this permeate backlash initiated by aca, my company has been forced to follow the herd an cave to the unwarranted aspect of this pressure. In order to obtain this so called permeate-free title We now have to ADD an extra component "retentate" above and beyond what is in the original milk, to standardize protien up tO the seasons maximum. While I believe this will have an opposite effect to consumers getting a more natural product, the consumer is always right. on a brighter note, the protien additive will assist frothing all year round
    Hi Milkman, thank you for the update.
    Can you please tell us a little bit more about this "retentate" that you have to add.

    Leave a comment:


  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    Originally posted by 6E4D5E5E55736859424F4D422C0 link=1340622249/50#50 date=1341143835
    - The use of growth promoting hormones is not permitted in Australian dairy production.”
    The statement I was responding to did not state that growth producing hormones were not used nor did I limit my response to just growth promoting hormones.

    Originally posted by 4C686D6A6C606F010 link=1340622249/22#22 date=1340781589
    hormones have never been fed to dairy cows, only beef cattle
    Originally posted by 4B6077607169686D64010 link=1340622249/26#26 date=1340789197
    This statement is meaningless as hormones are not only fed to cattle (Both dairy and beef.) but are also injected. As to hormones never having been used on dairy cows in Australia, in a word, baloney. Hormones have in fact seen wide spread use in Australias dairy industry and can still be used today...
    Growth promoting hormones are only one type of hormone that can be used on dairy cows. There are other types of hormones of which some have seen wide spread use by the dairy industry in Australia in the past and some of which are still used today.


    Java "Precision matters." phile

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  • Barry_Duncan
    replied
    Re: Companies cave to permeate pressure

    Originally posted by 557E697E6F7776737A1F0 link=1340622249/26#26 date=1340789197
    Hormones have in fact seen wide spread use in Australias dairy industry and can still be used today as the ban on some of them is voluntary rather than ensconced in law.
    “Strict food safety systems and requirements are in place to ensure the safety and integrity of Australian milk and other Australian dairy products.

    - The use of growth promoting hormones is not permitted in Australian dairy production.”

    http://www.dairyaustralia.com.au/Standard-Items/News/Dairy-News/Use-of-hormones-in-milk-production.aspx

    Barry

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