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  • Is Soy milk bad for you?

    Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Interesting article on Homogenised v Un-homogenised milk.

    NZ Society of Naturopaths - Homogenised Milk - Can it cause damage to your health
    that doesn't surprise me!

    And what is wrong with Soy Milk? EVERYTHING! unless you are a women

    All soy milk is full of estergin, mans worst enemy although we have small levels.

    It will give you enlarged breasts, love handles and cause excess DHT to build up in the bloodstream and collect in the scalp and prostate

    need I say more.....
    Last edited by Javaphile; 21 March 2013, 08:13 PM. Reason: language cleanup

  • #2
    Originally posted by C-man View Post
    that doesn't surprise me!



    All soy milk is full of estergin, mans worst enemy although we have small levels.

    cause excess DHT to build up in the bloodstream
    I think the word you were looking for is oestrogen, not surprised you cant spell dihydrotestosterone (DHL)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by C-man View Post
      that doesn't surprise me!

      And what is wrong with Soy Milk? EVERYTHING! unless you are a women
      All soy milk is full of estergin, mans worst enemy although we have small levels.
      It will give you enlarged breasts, love handles and cause excess DHT to build up in the bloodstream and collect in the scalp and prostate
      need I say more.....
      Disagree. Non-evidence based and unjustified in any way!!
      Asia continues to dominate soy milk consumption

      Soymillk consumptions dominates in Asia. If the above statement were true, then I fail to see more of the features you have mentioned in any typical Asian body profile. As for prostate?, find me a link which shows higher risk of prostate issues in Asia as compared to any other non soy drinking countries.

      Perhaps there are majors differences in which a Cauasian metabolises soymilk. Take Coeliac disease for example; it is predominant in Australia and rare in Asia. Ask any Asian to go on a Coeliac gluten free diet, and it would like his daily meal of rice (hardly any change needed).
      But most people in Asia have a lactose intolerance as compared to a Caucasian...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by miltah View Post
        Disagree. Non-evidence based and unjustified in any way!!
        Asia continues to dominate soy milk consumption
        The above is a very untrue statement! The fact is that many hundreds of peer reviewed studies have been undertaken on this very subject over the past few decades. Clinical evidence has clearly demonstrated that there are both pros and cons associated with soy milk/soy formula/non-fermented soy product consumption. In America the USDA classifies non-fermented soy products as a 2 on a danger scale from 1 to 5 (primarily due to phytoestrogen levels and their association with endocrine disruption at a cellular level) for the degree of risk associated with it. Like alcohol or caffeine, these products should be consumed in moderation... if at all.

        As for the Asian vs Caucasian differences in tolerance, the general belief is that Asian populations have been consuming soy for a long time, with no obvious consequences. This argument fails to recognize, however, that intake levels between Asians consuming a traditional soy-rich diet and Caucasians eating a typical “Western” diet differ dramatically over the lifespan. This temporal divergence may explain why there appear to be differences in both the pros and cons of phytoestrogen exposure between the two populations. In Asian populations, soy consumption is high across the entire lifespan, except for a brief 6–8 month neonatal breastfeeding window. In Westerners feeding their babies soy infant formula the pattern is just the opposite, and the highest consumption levels occur in the first year of life then drop to near zero with the possibility that consumption levels increase later in life with soy milk beverages or supplements. In Asia, soy is consumed mostly in the form of tofu, tempeh, and other unprocessed foods, not as dietary supplements or products enriched with soy protein isolate. Asian populations also eat considerably higher levels of seafood and low levels of animal fat than Western populations. These variables make the two populations quite distinct in terms of lifestyle, dietary habits, and lifetime phytoestrogen exposure. Thus, phytoestrogen effects may differ between the two groups, a possibility that should be taken into account when interpreting epidemiological data.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
          In Asian populations, soy consumption is high across the entire lifespan, except for a brief 6–8 month neonatal breastfeeding window. In Westerners feeding their babies soy infant formula the pattern is just the opposite, and the highest consumption levels occur in the first year of life then drop to near zero with the possibility that consumption levels increase later in life with soy milk beverages or supplements.
          Disagree. In the Australian Infant Feeding Guidelines, babies are exclusivly breastfed until 6 months whereby foods are introduced. Soy milk infant formula is never suggested or given unless the baby has a known allergy to cows milk. And that percentage is pretty low.

          My initial rebutal was towards the notion that soy milk is bad. You are now implying that perhaps the type of soy consumed in a traditional Asian Diet is different to that of a Western Diet. So are you now implying soy is ok if a Westerner consumes it as soymilk, tempeh tofu?

          Agree that variable are in play.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by miltah View Post
            My initial rebutal was towards the notion that soy milk is bad. You are now implying that perhaps the type of soy consumed in a traditional Asian Diet is different to that of a Western Diet.
            The bad things associated with soy are almost exclusively found in non-fermented soy products. Most of the soy products found in the west are of this type. In Asia fermented soy products account for a much higher percentage of soy products consumed.


            Java "Yes, Asian diets do differ from those in the West" phile
            Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by miltah View Post
              So are you now implying soy is ok if a Westerner consumes it as soymilk, tempeh tofu?
              No... I never implied that whatsoever. Soymilk is a non-fermented soy product and is therefore harmful to some degree.

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              • #8
                This from today's Australian.


                Soy milk is a good dairy alternative for those that have a diagnosed allergy or intolerance to dairy milk. However don't assume it is healthier. I would always opt for dairy milk over soy in the absence of allergies or intolerances. Soy is a common allergen and can cause just as many problems for kids as dairy in those who are susceptible. On the plus side soy is one of the few plants to provide the full array of essential amino acids we need, therefore soy is an excellent source of plant protein. The jury is still out on whether the phytoestrogens found in soy are beneficial or detrimental. I suggest using soy in the way traditional Asian diets do and not as the refined ‘soy protein isolate’ used in many Western foods. If you do choose soy milk for your kids, choose one made from whole beans, has nothing nasty added and is fortified with calcium.

                Here's a link to the complete article The right milk for your child

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                • #9
                  Your first mistake was taking any notice of pseudoscience (naturpaths) other than to mock their ignorance.

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                  • #10
                    Now with Soy in coffee, according to one of my co-workers, It inhibits the body from taking in all of the goodness and nutrients in espresso. Dunno whether this is true or not but could be a worthwhile discussion.

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                    • #11
                      Is Soy milk bad for you?

                      Everything is a poison in the right amount........except espresso of course!

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                      • #12
                        Is Soy milk bad for you?

                        Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                        This from today's Australian.
                        That doesn't help the credibility of anything in your post, Yelta! ;-)

                        Seriously though, can I take from that there are some soy milk brands that are better than others? If so, which brands?

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                        • #13
                          the simple fact that soy milk has phytoestrogen levels says enough for me.

                          give it to the girls..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by C-man View Post
                            the simple fact that soy milk has phytoestrogen levels says enough for me.

                            give it to the girls..
                            So do nut's, oil seeds, cereals, bread, meat, legumes, vegetables, fruit, alcohol and non alcoholic beverages.
                            Learn more about the topic here. Phytoestrogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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                            • #15
                              soy beans and ya nuts

                              Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                              So do nut's, oil seeds, cereals, bread, meat, legumes, vegetables, fruit, alcohol and non alcoholic beverages.
                              Learn more about the topic here. Phytoestrogens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                              OK...so being a scientist, this thread got me interested......as usual, people tend to grab things that align with their point of view and sell them as fact....

                              A recent review of the literature of the reproductive health effects of phytoestogens from soy shows that evidence either way is sketchy:
                              The paper is titled Soy, phytoestrogens and their impact on reproductive health and was published in Molecular and Cellular Endicrinology last year.

                              Several studies have shown effects on female fertility
                              "Although available data are highly heterogeneous, a recent meta-analysis of 47 studies concluded that consumption of soy and isoflavones in premenopausal women reduces circulating LH and FSH, and increases menstrual cycle length (Hooper et al., 2009). In contrast no statistical effects were observed on hormonal status in postmenopausal women. Because soy food is increasingly part of the female diet, the clinical relevance of these modest hormonal changes must be examined in further robust studies."


                              Basically, there are only three studies in the primary literature looking directly at effects on male fertility, and their outcomes are completely contradictory - 1 detects bad effects from phytoestrogens, one detects good effects, and the other finds no effects. The paper also reflects that there is heaps of evidence of negative effects from animal testing, but that the results are hugely variable between different animals, so extrapolating to humans from any of these studies is dodgy science.

                              "As is the case for women, there is a surprising paucity of studies evaluating the effects of soy and phytoestrogens on fertility and reproductive parameters in men. To our knowledge, only three studies have investigated the impact of soy food or isoflavone intake on semen quality with contradictory results...............Studies focusing on hormonal levels also found no clear effects (or borderline significance) when consuming tofu (70 mg/day isoflavones), soymilk (48 mg/day isoflavones), or soy products (22 mg/day isoflavones; Habito et al., 2000, Nagata et al., 2000 and Nagata et al., 2001). A recent meta-analysis, which included studies that evaluated testosterone levels as a bio-indicator of risks for prostate cancer, suggested out of 32 reports that soy foods or isoflavone intake do not alter free testosterone levels (Hamilton-Reeves et al., 2010)."

                              "Overall, there is an apparent lack of notable effects, suggesting that regular adult soy-product or isoflavone intake in men causes little detrimental effect on reproduction and fertility. However, this near absence of documented impact emphasizes once again the need for long term, large scale comprehensive human studies."

                              My take: I wouldn't be too worried, but perhaps if you are a guy trying to squeeze out competent swimmers (I am well past that stage - all roads to freedom for the little guys are blocked), you might want to ease off the soy as one of many measures (boxers, rather than jocks...etc) to maximise all possibilities of sustainingyour genetic line (OK..I said I was a scientist )

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