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  • Bizarre milk seperation problem

    Hi everyone,
    Myself and my mother have a very strange coffee making problem we were hoping someone could help with. We use a very simple Baby Gagia at home, but ive been making decent flat whites on it for years. Suddenly weve been having a wierd and disgusting milk speration problem, occuring with about 80 percent of the coffees im making. Ive tried different coffees, milks, different waters (including bottled), and we have thoughouly descaled the machine. Yet it is still happening.

    Basically the coffee starts out looking ok, but within minutes the froth hardens up and starts to seperate and the milk in the coffee starts to seperate. If you stir it around and leave it a few more minutes it looks like the picture attached.. tasty!

    What is going on?! Feel like ive tested every variable, but its still happening!

    Thanks for your help

  • #2
    It almost looks like it's curdling.

    Comment


    • #3
      Highly acidic coffee can do that, especially with milk that's near the end of its drinkable life.


      Java "Curds and whey anyone?" phile
      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Curdled... What milk are you using and how old is it?

        What happens if you steam some milk and leave it without pouring it into the coffee? Same deal?

        Comment


        • #5
          Any chance that some of your descaling solution is getting in to the milk?

          I mean I get small bubbles in the crema from acidic beans, or from pours that I pull up short, but that looks like a biological experiment.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by heks12 View Post
            Hi everyone,
            Myself and my mother have a very strange coffee making problem we were hoping someone could help with. We use a very simple Baby Gagia at home, but ive been making decent flat whites on it for years. Suddenly weve been having a wierd and disgusting milk speration problem, occuring with about 80 percent of the coffees im making. Ive tried different coffees, milks, different waters (including bottled), and we have thoughouly descaled the machine. Yet it is still happening.

            Basically the coffee starts out looking ok, but within minutes the froth hardens up and starts to seperate and the milk in the coffee starts to seperate. If you stir it around and leave it a few more minutes it looks like the picture attached.. tasty!

            What is going on?! Feel like ive tested every variable, but its still happening!
            Hi Heks

            To me that comes down to one or more of three issues (not counting Javaphiles old / stale milk, as I assume you have that one covered). In my best order of guessing:

            1) If you do not whirlpool the milk (look it up in a frothing thread somewhere), when we have the dreaded 3 week "change of season" (which just finished in WA) a lot of different cow milks curdle almost instantly when you try to froth them. Try to set up a whirlpool as rapidly as you can and see if it helps. Oh, by "almost instantly", the process takes a while but the damage is within the first second or two. Sounds familiar?
            2) Descaling often does not clean severely clogged steam wands properly. I was severely CS flamed for posting one extreme I went to via a solvent based attempt (successful) in removing the gunk, however an ultrasound bath may help in all but the most stubborn cases. Unless you have access to a medical probe, all I can suggest is to check whether the steam flow is "correct for your machine" and nothing nasty is in the steam (i.e. spare descaler or milk gunk). If there is a problem, I usually find it is faster to take the wand out and drop it in a solvent (... hearing the CS flamethrowers firing up) and use pipecleaners or suchlike until it is actually clean.
            3) Your milk thermometer is now out of calibration and is under reading by 5+ degrees. Check it by trying another one. Or, if you are not using a thermo, buy one (circa $15).

            Hope this gives you a starting point.

            TampIt
            Last edited by TampIt; 4 November 2013, 01:45 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Glad I finished my coffee before I saw that picture.

              You said you've tried different milks - across what range? i.e. different brands? different bottles of the same brand? Maybe try getting something completely different? You could try getting full cream powdered milk from Coles or Aldi's (I presume Woollies has it too but haven't bought from there) and make some up - not suggesting you convert over but it WILL give you consistent milk that I've never had curdle on me and I've been using it for years. Basically 1 cup per litre - I use maybe 1/4 cup more for extra creamy.

              I've seen soy milk look like that after steaming - I think the guy made it too hot.

              Where do you live? Could there be supply issues with the milk?

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately still no solution. Made one coffee yesterday which wad fine, made another with all the same ingredients amd it went bad. Mind boggling.
                Tried 3 different coffees now, bunch of different milk including long life lactose free. The milk doesnt seperate by itself, only once it hits the espresso shot.
                I dont use a thermo, never had to to produce a fine coffee before this all started.
                Havnt put the wand in solvent but gave it a good clean inside and steam flow seems perfectly stong and even to me.
                Powdered milk might be worth a shot.
                Its got to be something with the milk or milk preparation, if i make a shot of espresso and add warm microwaved milk never a seperation problem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by heks12 View Post
                  Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately still no solution. Made one coffee yesterday which wad fine, made another with all the same ingredients amd it went bad. Mind boggling.
                  Tried 3 different coffees now, bunch of different milk including long life lactose free. The milk doesnt seperate by itself, only once it hits the espresso shot.
                  I dont use a thermo, never had to to produce a fine coffee before this all started.
                  Havnt put the wand in solvent but gave it a good clean inside and steam flow seems perfectly stong and even to me.
                  Powdered milk might be worth a shot.
                  Its got to be something with the milk or milk preparation, if i make a shot of espresso and add warm microwaved milk never a seperation problem.
                  Hi Heks

                  It is probably the change of season thing. Affects all milks for three weeks at the "cow end". The supply chain often takes longer. It usually only breaks down like that if it is hit with overly hot steam, only it always has a delayed reaction. The acid in the coffee tips it over the edge.
                  Recognising you have already cleaned your machine out, I reckon your options are
                  1) Use the mw for the next week or two and try again
                  2) Use a milk thermo (if you ever want "true microfoam" you will need one anyway) to ensure you are not overheating the milk. At the change of season it can be hairtrigger between froth & lumps.
                  3) If the Baby Gaggia has a removeable steam nozzle (a lot of machines do), remove it and see how clean it is inside. Zero tolerance of wand crud at this time of year.
                  4) Swap the steam nozzle (if possible). I ran into a nozzle once (long ago) where it suddenly & mysteriously failed. All attempts of "nozzle CPR" failed and the replacement one worked as well as the old one did originally. Go figure? I never did.

                  Hope you can nail the SOB

                  TampIt

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    just wondering if you have a dish washing machine?
                    did a quick google and came up with a post on whirlpool that mentioned a guy had issues with curdling milk after he changed the rinse aid in his dish washer...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good thought okitoki. It can affect things particularly with glass. Glass isn't a solid and is one of the strongest known substances... except for the micro-cracks that happen the instant it's exposed to air as it cools. Those cracks are the reason why you should never wash a beer glass in detergent and why pubs have special cleaner for their glass washers. The detergent gets into the cracks and then kills the head on the beer.

                      Maybe see if the milk thing happens in glazed china? (i.e. quality cups)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        lol... could be...
                        but then, could be the dishwasher's rinsing cycle is not as good as it was before and left some detergent/chemical on dishes (glass and cups)...
                        easiest way is to confirm if dishwasher is involved, and if can wash glass/jugs differently (instead of dishwasher) to see if it causes any more curdling?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by okitoki View Post
                          just wondering if you have a dish washing machine?
                          did a quick google and came up with a post on whirlpool that mentioned a guy had issues with curdling milk after he changed the rinse aid in his dish washer...
                          Wow! Good one!

                          Just when I thought I had most milk things covered... Years ago ('80's?) I stopped using (common / famous brand) rinse aid in my Dish*** dishwasher as it tainted every bit of food or drink. Scary to think they haven't sorted that out yet.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by heks12 View Post
                            Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately still no solution. Made one coffee yesterday which wad fine, made another with all the same ingredients amd it went bad. Mind boggling.
                            Tried 3 different coffees now, bunch of different milk including long life lactose free. The milk doesnt seperate by itself, only once it hits the espresso shot.
                            I dont use a thermo, never had to to produce a fine coffee before this all started.
                            Havnt put the wand in solvent but gave it a good clean inside and steam flow seems perfectly stong and even to me.
                            Powdered milk might be worth a shot.
                            Its got to be something with the milk or milk preparation, if i make a shot of espresso and add warm microwaved milk never a seperation problem.
                            Was this happening before you descaled the machine?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well for now I seem to have fixed the problem by just making less hot coffees than I usually do..so luke warm .
                              Seems whatever causes this reaction problem is catalysed by hi temp milk..
                              So for now its fixed, even tho i hate luke warm coffee.. might wait a few weeks and see if the milk season changes

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