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  • leograyson
    replied
    Hi heks12 good to hear that the problem has been solved.

    This has been a very instructive thread, and a learning exercise for all of us who followed it.
    Even the suggestions that were not correct were mostly constructive and interesting.

    QUOTE :- "Ease up people. This web site was founded on collective learning and not leaving the job to experts. Every failure builds knowledge."

    A big +1 from me for this.

    I have said it before and I'll say it again :- Many people on this site are D.I.Y. oriented. They want to solve their own problems, and learn something in the process. As long as they are not endangering themselves or others, we should let them do it their way. We should help them if we can, and not try to discourage them.

    Leave a comment:


  • heks12
    replied
    Hopefully this thread will now be of use to others in the future who have the same mysterious problem and it will help them solve it quicker, as long as they have time to read through 50 posts

    Leave a comment:


  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by heks12 View Post
    LLLaaadddiiieees and Ggggeeennnttttllleemen, its the moment youve been waiting for...

    The problem has been solved!

    How? A fresh descale using a new brand of descaler. The only solution we can draw is that the previous descaler, despite being one supposedly good in coffee machine must have caused the problem. It was a dissolvable descaler, as opposed to the new one, specifically dedigned for coffee machines which comes in a liquid form.
    Our only guess was that the machine must have contained a significant amount of the original descaler, as many of you suggested.
    The funny thing is that I did a test pouring steamed milk into a shot of water containing that descaler and I had to put in a disturbing concentration before the same curdling occured...so I dont want to think about what I was drinking out of that machine. Goodness knows how it managed to stay in the machine through so many coffees and flushings but the new descaler has fixed the issue instantly.

    Thanks so much for everyones help and persistence, damn its great to have coffee back!!
    Hi again heks12

    Glad it is sorted.

    As stated in my post 6 in this thread "2) Descaling often does not clean severely clogged steam wands properly. I was severely CS flamed for posting one extreme I went to via a solvent based attempt (successful) in removing the gunk, however an ultrasound bath may help in all but the most stubborn cases. Unless you have access to a medical probe, all I can suggest is to check whether the steam flow is "correct for your machine" and nothing nasty is in the steam (i.e. spare descaler or milk gunk). If there is a problem, I usually find it is faster to take the wand out and drop it in a solvent (... hearing the CS flamethrowers firing up) and use pipecleaners or suchlike until it is actually clean."

    If I ever needed more proof that my 1979 training was correct, you have provided it:-

    1) Use very clean filtered water as a main input so it does not need descaling often.
    2) Take all bits "in the coffee path" out of the machine and soak them overnight in a bucket of efficient solvent. Apart from the usual suspects of baskets, p/f holders, showerscreens etc, this especially applies to milk wands unless your technique does not allow for a build up of gunk (or stray descaler). It is also far more efficient to rinse them out thoroughly when they are easier to access...

    Result: None of my machines ever had a descaler (or scaling prob for that matter) problem until an unrelated warranty repair on one of my 6910's. The repairer "always descales all machines before they repair them". FWIW, I literally could not remove the descaler from the milk section after a few uses, so I ended up removing the whole wand section and introduced it to my solvent. Problem solved. 18 months later and the machine is still fine without any "internal cleaning" of any kind. Side benefit, there is no polluting taste of descaler in my cuppas.

    Enjoy the clean taste of a decent cuppa.

    Cheers

    TampIt

    Leave a comment:


  • okitoki
    replied
    Funny enough I tend to learn quicker by messing up or breaking things and then have to fix it myself after. If I don't know how, I go to forums and read up if anyone else had the same problems and how to fix it. If its something that will kill me (like playing with electricity) I would then get professional help.

    I do this for computers, motorcycles and paintball.

    But then this may only works for some

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr._V View Post
    Ease up people. This web site was founded on collective learning and not leaving the job to experts. Every failure builds knowledge.

    I'd be interested to know what the original descaler was and how you could miss the taste. The descaler I use is citric acid based and tastes like.....citric acid.
    Evening Dr V, welcome to Coffee Snobs.
    For the benefit of those who may not have understood what I meant in this post I'll say it again.

    If you don't know what your doing, leave the job to someone who does

    Not trying to be smart or difficult, simply a statement of fact, as we have learned from this thread, lots of traps for the unskilled or unwary.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr._V
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Nope, what it suggests is, if you don't know what your doing, leave the job to someone who does.
    Ease up people. This web site was founded on collective learning and not leaving the job to experts. Every failure builds knowledge.

    I'd be interested to know what the original descaler was and how you could miss the taste. The descaler I use is citric acid based and tastes like.....citric acid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by MrJack View Post
    Which suggests perhaps a litmus test or pH reading should be recommended as standard practice. A few flushes is not a guarantee.
    Nope, what it suggests is, if you don't know what your doing, leave the job to someone who does.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrJack
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    What is worrying is the fact that inexperienced people are using descale chemicals without the knowledge to safely carry out the process, the only clue here that the water in the boiler was contaminated is the addition of milk which immediately curdled, assuming only shots or long black was being consumed there is a strong chance this stuff could have been ingested, not sure how toxic the stuff is, however I certainly wouldn't want to drink it.
    Which suggests perhaps a litmus test or pH reading should be recommended as standard practice. A few flushes is not a guarantee.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post

    On the other hand I cant believe the problem has taken 45 posts and 2 weeks to sort out, Barry O'Speedwagon nailed it in post 5, contaminated water in the boiler was the obvious answer.
    .[/COLOR]
    What's equally intriguing is that when I followed up and asked whether the problem had existed before the machine was descaled the answer was 'yes'. Maybe it was residue from the previous descale............

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Let me be the first to congratulate you on sorting the problem out Heks.

    On the other hand I cant believe the problem has taken 45 posts and 2 weeks to sort out, Barry O'Speedwagon nailed it in post 5, contaminated water in the boiler was the obvious answer.

    What is worrying is the fact that inexperienced people are using descale chemicals without the knowledge to safely carry out the process, the only clue here that the water in the boiler was contaminated is the addition of milk which immediately curdled, assuming only shots or long black was being consumed there is a strong chance this stuff could have been ingested, not sure how toxic the stuff is, however I certainly wouldn't want to drink it.

    Chris at Talk Coffee is correct, if you don't know how to do the job pay someone who does.
    Last edited by Yelta; 24 November 2013, 01:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • heks12
    replied
    LLLaaadddiiieees and Ggggeeennnttttllleemen, its the moment youve been waiting for...

    The problem has been solved!

    How? A fresh descale using a new brand of descaler. The only solution we can draw is that the previous descaler, despite being one supposedly good in coffee machine must have caused the problem. It was a dissolvable descaler, as opposed to the new one, specifically dedigned for coffee machines which comes in a liquid form.
    Our only guess was that the machine must have contained a significant amount of the original descaler, as many of you suggested.
    The funny thing is that I did a test pouring steamed milk into a shot of water containing that descaler and I had to put in a disturbing concentration before the same curdling occured...so I dont want to think about what I was drinking out of that machine. Goodness knows how it managed to stay in the machine through so many coffees and flushings but the new descaler has fixed the issue instantly.

    Thanks so much for everyones help and persistence, damn its great to have coffee back!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragunov21
    replied
    Bow chikka, bow chikka chikki bow wow.

    Leave a comment:


  • Journeyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Journeyman, didn't your wife write 50 Shades of Grey or something like that? Better keep the video in AO section of the site.
    Someone needs more coffee - the antioxidants are good for your brain.

    The books suggestions was for her to write '50 Shades of Pain' as the story of my travails with my EM0480 grinder. And I was suggesting the OP make a video, so if he wants to include porn froth, I think that would be his choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • chokkidog
    replied
    Originally posted by heks12 View Post
    I did flush it thoroughly with bottled and am only using bottled
    Hmmmm........... so .......... some bottled water has aluminium residues in it ( In Australia bacteria, chemical disinfectants and aluminium have been found in bottled water samples.)

    Aluminium sulfate is used to purify water.

    Aluminium sulfate is used to curdle milk.

    Just a thought but you could spend 1/2 a day completely purging your machine, fill it with tap water and see what happens.
    Maybe something, maybe nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Journeyman, didn't your wife write 50 Shades of Grey or something like that? Better keep the video in AO section of the site.

    Leave a comment:

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