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I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

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  • thomm0
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Originally posted by grimsby link=1203213616/0#6 date=1203420594
    Hi Philhouse,

    I have a Rancilio Silvia and felt I wasnt getting the best out of my machine so I did a basic Barista course on profesional machines aimed at poeple wanting to work in the industry. It was money well spent. Microfoam is not a hit and miss affair any more. I found that Silvia foamed milk just as well as the pro machines once I had learnt the technique, it just took a bit longer due to smaller amount of steam available from Silvia.

    Alan
    Whats the secret to perfect microfoam? Im a latte art newbie and recently got myself a Silvia and Im tryiyng to work out how to consistently steam latte art quality milk. Same witih Phil - there seems to be lots of instructions, some of which is specific to certain machines.

    For me it is hit and miss (mostly miss) and the problem is Im not sure where Im going wrong. Can you describe your technique and how long it takes on the Silvia to get to perfect milk?

    It would be great if you can share some common mistakes and how to diagnose/fix these.

    Leave a comment:


  • Philhouse
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    ;D ;D

    Nah true ! ;D

    FYI, tonights coffee... good, a little donut extraction though... went around the flavour... damn.. the search continues !!

    Leave a comment:


  • GrindOnDemand
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Originally posted by Philhouse link=1203213616/0#14 date=1204527454
    ... by the way ... I just had THE best coffee Ive ever made. Absolute GOD shot and almost perfect milk ... The pinnacle of my coffee experience, not just from my own made coffees, but pretty much all the coffees Ive had the experience of drinking.
    Phil, mate, youve evidently not tasted mine yet! ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • Philhouse
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!



    Hey all,

    Ive had a little play around with the water level sensor and lowered it a touch, as I was gettin a fair amount of wet steam, now its MUCH drier and seems to be really producing better textured milk. Ive also altered my angle-of-attack in the jug and a variation on my past technique seems to producing HEAPS better microfoam.

    By the way.... I just had THE best Coffee Ive ever made. Absolute GOD shot and almost perfect milk.... The Pinnacle of my coffee experience, not just my own made coffees, pretty much all coffees I ve had the experience of drinking. The Chocolates and the flavours were out of this world and the milk lifted all the flavours too, not buried them in hot milky flavour. * picture Homer drooling... aagghhhh.... mmm Coffee !! *

    Im scared now Ill never be able to reproduce it to that level again.... but at least I know, that if the planets align... and I hold my left foot up at 46 degrees and my tongue just right... the Machine is capable of bliss and

    Maybe Ill reach Coffee Nirvana again !!

    TODAY IS A GOOD COFFEE DAY !!

    Cheers all.

    Phil


    Leave a comment:


  • Philhouse
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Cheers all,

    I found this browsing the Coffeegeek frothing guide:

    "I generally use the same quantity of milk for two reasons. One is that to create foam you need proteins (if you read our Hi Milk section, youll see why). The more milk being steamed the more protein is available to create foam. To use less milk you have less of these key components to create the volume of foam you will need for a cappuccino.

    The other catch is that if you go too small on the quantity of milk the milk will heat up too quickly for you to have time to create the quantity and quality of foam you need. This depends on the machine of course with smaller, slower steaming machines being able to steam and foam smaller quantities of milk without a problem. It is definitely a concern at the commercial or prosumer level of machines where too small a quantity of milk will almost flash heat on you before you can create any foam. It can of course be done but to start here would only add to the difficulty of learning to steam milk."


    Might start using a little more milk in the jug just to get my self sorted out, before I jump in the deep end withy small amounts of milk.

    Phil.


    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    I do a little less than 150ml in my 300ml jug.
    I mostly use the 300ml jug.

    Leave a comment:


  • GregWormald
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Hi Phil,
    Its taken me a while to get it right as I foam very little milk. My standard amount for 1 coffee (thats what Im usually making) is less than 75 ml in a 300 ml (or so) jug.
    To get that working I had to semi-block the holes in my two-hole wand. I used a bit of stainless wire bent into a "U" shape and inserted it into the holes from the inside.
    I put the wand just below the surface of the milk, vertically in the centre of the jug, and foam when the pressure gauge reaches 2 bar--as recommended on the importers web site. I crack the valve open until I get the sound I want and just keep it going until the sound deepens a bit and the milk has expanded by 50% or so. I found it was very easy to overdo it. (VBM Domobar--sometimes called a Levetta)
    Greg

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Originally posted by Philhouse link=1203213616/0#9 date=1204096551
    I just measured the amount I usually steam in the jug and its about 175ml in a 300 ml jug.

    Is that too little ?
    Gday Phil,

    Absolutely not mate..... It all depends on how much you need. When making a single Latte for myself or others, the 300ml jug comes in very handy and like you say, very little is wasted and that is not a bad thing.....

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Philhouse
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Cheers all,

    I just measured the amount I usually steam in the jug and its about 175ml in a 300 ml jug.

    Is that too little ?

    I hate to waste.

    I think Im starting to realise how impossible it is to get perfect silky textured milk from such a small amount. Im suspecting its heating up way too quick and not allowing for any errors, well, for the perfection I expect for myself. It just wont properly incorporate the foam and milk entirely. Its frustrating because I have fluked it a few times, I dont know how, but the resulting silky milk, both in taste and mouthfeel is divine and is really something I expect I should be getting a majority of the time by now.

    Thanks for any advice.

    Phil.

    Leave a comment:


  • ev
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Personally, I wouldnt dare using anything smaller than a 600ml jug. I steam approx 250ml for 2 lattes & the 2 hole tip works great. Heres my technique:
    Keep wand vertical & open valve fully. Stick it in the middle & surf the top of the milk until you hit 20-25 deg then sink & create a whirlpool. Bash the jug on the bench a few times & swirl.

    Evan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trevorbeans
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Hi Philhouse,

    The guys have given you some good advice!

    Id emphasize what Alan has said about the jug size, and agree fully that it will be far more manageable, at least initially, with a 600ml jug than a 300ml, because of the very strong steaming power of the VBMs.

    Along with that, no-one says you have to open the steam all the way at once...better to feel your way and utilise the strength of steam you are comfortable with.

    To get the very best microfroth with my Domobar, I try and keep the wand tip as near vertical to the surface of the milk as possible, and set up more of a "tumbling over" action, rather than a "swirling around the jug action" which is common practice for a lot of machines.

    Good luck with it all!

    Trevor

    Leave a comment:


  • grimsby
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Hi Philhouse,

    I think Bullit has answered all your questions.
    Ill just make an observation about the benefit of doing a Barista course.
    I have a Rancilio Silvia and felt I wasnt getting the best out of my machine so I did a basic Barista course on profesional machines aimed at poeple wanting to work in the industry. It was money well spent. Microfoam is not a hit and miss affair any more. I found that Silvia foamed milk just as well as the pro machines once I had learnt the technique, it just took a bit longer due to smaller amount of steam available from Silvia.
    One other suggestion is to buy and use a milk thermometer. This way you end up with your microfoam at the correct temperatue every time. No burnt hands - or milk!
    Also stick with a 600ml jug until you have the technique down pat. Using a 300ml jug introduces a whole new dimension.
    All the best with it mate.
    You will win in the end.

    Alan

    Leave a comment:


  • Philhouse
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Thanks for taking the time to reply Bullitt.

    Geez I did ask a lot of questions...  :-[ (I started typing from a stream of conciousness)

    I guess I was having a Bad Coffee day, where stuff just wont work and I dont have the experience you guys have, to know why exactly.

    I will start to consider the milk a bit more when things go SNAFU. I guess it take it for granted that the milk I buy is sufficiently fresh and full of protiens. I didnt realise it can really vary that much from batch to batch ? ie: Milk bought a few days apart from the same supermarket, some is fine then some is rubbish for microfoam. I thought it was more seasonal and drawn out over weeks.

    Ive been spoiled by the silky Microfoam and its a hard habit to kick.... can you get patches for your arm ? for those bad days ?

    Cheers  

    Phil.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bullitt
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Hi Philhouse,

    A think Ive covered all the questions.

    Dunno.
    Unlikley.
    Only if its a very blunt knife.
    Dont think so.
    Well sometimes you can....... (Quote"Some days its absolute gold, up with the best microfoam Ive ever had, sweet, silky, really accentutates the coffee flavours and generally makes me obsess about " why isnt like that everytime ? ")

    A little.
    When it goes up and over the side.
    You can never have too much steam.
    Quicker the better as long as you can get the results you want.
    Wish I knew, commonly suggested it means wand is too deep.
    => No
    Yes milk does vary and it does affect the results.
    Dont waste money on expensive milk (unless you sure you can taste the difference)
    Not freshness but other qualities of the milk vary depending on time of year, cows and other factors.....and they do affect how the milk responds to steaming.
    No.
    probably, but better able to adapt.

    Summary - Your basic technique sounds correct.
    Steaming milk for one, in a small jug is always more of a challenge.
    Ive seen pros steam enough for 2 and dump the first half into another jug, then pour perfect rosettas...point is you have less lattitude with the smaller amount of milk.

    Also I have found that with same milk and technique, results can vary dramatically between different cartons of milk, not freshness as noted above but protein content etc of the milk, which comes back to the cows, and what they are eating and the time of year, so sometimes its not what you did, or didnt do, its what your working with, and I dont think the milk tastes as good when its like that either.

    Single hole wands I think work best at the side of the jug, compared to multi holed tips which work differently, and more suited to larger volumes of milk.

    I usually get good microfoam at home with Silvia, but on the old boiler at the office, with the giant 4 hole tip, I struggle to get even small bubbles in the relatively small 600ml jug.

    The 300ml jug at home with Silvia can be more of a challenge than when I steam milk for 2 in the 600ml jug.

    Sounds like your well on your way.


    Bullitt

    Leave a comment:


  • Trevorbeans
    replied
    Re: I dont wanna be a Microfoam idiot... !!

    Hi again, Philhouse,

    The "Levetta" is the base model VBM with a lever but with a single 700ml boiler, retailing at about $1,299.00...I take it than you own the more expensive model ( over $2,,000 ) with a heat exchanger, and with the ability to texture milk and pour shots simultaneously.

    I have no experience on that machine, but its reputed to be a beauty!

    Trevorbeans

    Leave a comment:

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