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  • Microwaved v frothed milk

    I know this question will make a lot of you choke, but its serious...

    I make all my lattes with microwaved milk, not frothed. Ive tried frothing, and besides it being very inconvenient, time-consuming, and messy, I didnt actually like the taste as much. I like milk for its taste and thick consistency. I found when I frothed it, the bubbles detracted from the consistency. For some reason, I feel they also stop me appreciating the crema as much as I do otherwise.

    Every time Ive tried frothing, Ive tried to keep the bubbles as fine as possible. Im not sure if they constitute the fabled micro-froth, though. Im yet to research that!

    So my questions are:
    1) Is frothing supposed to be better?
    2) If so, why?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

    Proper microfoam should be smooth and creamy not bubbly. In the old days I used to microwave my milk and then add some blend 43 and it was hot milk with instant coffee which I enjoyed with my brekky. Now it is a double ristretto with textured milk and the occasional piece of latte art depending on the milk consistency on the day.
    Read some threads on CS about texturing milk and practice, once you master the technique it will be worth the effort.
    What sort of machine are you using?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

      The bubbles should be so fine that the milk slips down like velvet..............only microfoam can do this.

      When you hit the right temp [65C], a big waft of sweet nuttiness will fill your nostrils....only microfoam can do this.

      1. Yes
      2. What I just said



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      • #4
        Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

        Thanks guys. Im using a Spidem Trevi Plus. Its an entry-level machine that cost about $400. But its better than the $300ish Brevilles. Ive had three of those!

        I practised frothing - sorry... texturing - the milk this morning. Tried about 8 times. Im pretty sure I was doing a decent job. Very small bubbles. Nice consistency, etc. Same as Ive achieved in the past.

        The other thing is that I dont like the milk too hot. I like to be able to take a full mouthful with my first mouthful. (I dont actually do that; its just a guide - if I couldnt, the milks too hot.) Not sure if I could at 65 degrees. Im a bit of a pansy when it comes to hot food and drink!

        In any case, the point is moot. After practising this morning, my frother died! Not sure what happened, but it just stopped working. Ill have another look at it later today.

        For now, Ill continue trying to make the perfect cup with the microwaved milk. Its what Ive found I like anyway. Cant say with 100% certainty that Ive compared it with good, micro, textured milk, but I know I made a very nice coffee this morning with some CS Wow Espresso pre-ground.

        At the moment, I think my no1 priority is to find the right ratio of milk to coffee. Im finding that variation is changing the taste considerably. Im outputting about 30ml of very rich, creamy coffee in 30 seconds. From a completely full double-shot basket. (Any less than completely full and 30ml comes through in about 10 seconds.) Ive heard the 33% coffee: 33% milk: 33% froth rule. But I dont like froth. So Ive been trying 33% coffee: 66% milk. Think I need a greater proportion of milk. Still 30ml coffee, but just more volume of milk.

        Then I need to decide if I have exactly the right beans. I think I may try the CS Sampler, next time.

        But I think thats a discussion for another thread...

        Cheers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

          say no to "froth". propely steamed milk will present you with microfoam which will be a jug of 1 precise, consistent texture - no layers, no airy foam on top and hot milk at the bottom, just velvety, white gold.

          as for proportions, use the same size cup and if youre pulling consistently volumed shots, then fill to the same point and you should be replicating an identical taste everyday. of course youre fighting other variables, but you want to narrow them down where you can.

          and that is what this coffee art is all about: consistency and repeatability. you have dozens of variables, some controllable (cup size, quantities, type of bean, grind size, temperatures etc) and some not (humidity, variability of beans, milk quality etc) and what you need to be doing in order to produce that perfect cup, is 1 by 1 controlling each of these elements til you can make exactly the same coffee to within a few percent every day.

          good luck.

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          • #6
            Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

            divinewrite, my guess is that you havent achieved microfoam yet. When you do, youll know about it. It will look like velvet with no visible bubbles & will poor like cream. Most importantly, it will be very sweet & wont need sugar. Microwaved milk doesnt come close. Find a good cafe thats known for its latte art & try their coffee. Ill never forget the first latte that Andrew from the Mailing room (Melbourne) made me. I was blown away & I reckon Ill spend the next five years trying to get mine that good!

            Evan.

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            • #7
              Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

              As for temperature, I stop when I hear pitch of the steaming milk start to drop. Its hard to explain, but when I hear it start to go "EEeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaoooww" (descending pitch), its hot enough. Much further than that and I start to get cooked milk, which does taste horrible.

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              • #8
                Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                Thanks for your replies, everyone. Very helpful. I think for now, Ill have to content myself with microwaved milk. Ive spent quite a bit of time experimenting with texturing, and Ive either been unable to achieve it, or I havent been that impressed with it if I have. Unfortunately, I simply dont have enough time to keep playing around with it. Perhaps when the kids are a bit older and/or I have a better machine...

                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                  I have been doing both lately - that is, both things to the same jug of milk.

                  In order to save time on the steaming, i put a mug of milk in the microwave for, say, 50 seconds while I am pulling a shot, which gets the milk up to about 40 degrees. Then I tip this into my jug and steam it up to temp (not more than 60deg usually). While i am steaming I am also zapping the next lot of milk for the next cup.

                  The milk behaves differently in the jug than it does from cold, but with a little attention it ends up OK. the good part is that when making coffee for a group you spend more time chatting and less time in front of the steaming wand.

                  Anyone else out there do something similar? Or is that too heathenish?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                    I really prefer frothing the milk with coffee because i have seen it microwaved before. your results with microwaving milk are not pleasant you will get the milk skin and that can be a nuisance in itself.
                    but thats just my opinion.
                    also try frothing milk because if you make it right and use certain milk it can taste great. scoot froths the milk and i can hardly taste it when its mixed with coffee!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                      Originally posted by Meetim link=1203483269/0#8 date=1206972960
                      I have been doing both lately - that is, both things to the same jug of milk.

                      In order to save time on the steaming, i put a mug of milk in the microwave for, say, 50 seconds while I am pulling a shot, which gets the milk up to about 40 degrees. Then I tip this into my jug and steam it up to temp (not more than 60deg usually). While i am steaming I am also zapping the next lot of milk for the next cup.

                      The milk behaves differently in the jug than it does from cold, but with a little attention it ends up OK. the good part is that when making coffee for a group you spend more time chatting and less time in front of the steaming wand.

                      Anyone else out there do something similar? Or is that too heathenish?
                      Having previously owned a sunbeam espresso machine in the past I can understand why you would pre heat the milk in the micro wave before frothing, particularly multiple drinks. I would spend countless frustrating minutes at the so called steam wand producing insufficient amounts of terribly frothed milk which when coupled with consistently poorly extracted coffee complimented each other perfectly. [smiley=tongue.gif]

                      True microfoam and excellent espresso are achievable with practice but not from a substandard machine, I have experienced almost every variable across the spectrum of attempted espresso shots always aspiring to the almost allusive "espresso nirvana" and the answer is that "upgradeitis" is a very necessary phenomenon and something to be seriously embraced.
                      Having said that, the baby steps are also very necessary in the scheme of things, they are the building blocks on which you improve upon and the progression and growing through the various stages builds not only your experience in trying to handle difficult machines but also the appreciation of what a better machine can actually produce.

                      I have got to say this one thing, when searching for that "affordable" kickass machine that we all ultimately want I would recommend a well kept secondhand commercial machine. The reason being is that they are very robust, reliable, and consistent to say the least. You should get a good one, with accessories under or around the 2 grand mark which when compared to the high end machines is fantastic value and will not leave you wanting, upgradeitis is completely satisfied, I still love mine as much, (if not more), now as ever.

                      From a very passionate 2 group commercial machine nut.......... I hope this helps.... Ray.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                        My query is partly related to this topic and also asking for advice. I recently acquired Gaggia Classic and slowly getting the hang of it re pulling reasonable shots. I noticed that where I bought the Classic and when it was demonstrated to me that the plastic end on steam frother had been removed when frothing milk.
                        I did the same (using 600ml jug) but I found that the stainless steel end of frother does not protrube far enough into jug to be able to adequately froth the milk . Therefore I have been frothing milk by heating milk in microwave and using battery operated frother (surprisingly good).
                        I know I could change steaming wand on Classic but at present I dont want to go down that track. If I refit plastic attachment to  steaming wand I cant seem to get milk hot enough - even though I use the recommended techniques for this procedure
                        Help and advice appreciated

                        Gussy

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                        • #13
                          Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                          Price, not having ever owned a Gaggia Classic I cant say for sure (for this machine) but all plastic steam/frothing enhancers that i have tried will not/ can not produce decent froth yet alone microfoam. If the method you are using is currently working for you then great, however, in my opinion (having tried both ways) it will never equal true microfoam. Many people on this forum are having success with 300mL jugs (with machines that have much more steaming power) for single milk based drinks. Alot of the Classic owners on this forum have been in a similar situation to you. Alot have solved this by installing silvia wand which is able to be sourced from coffeeparts (on the left sidebar) and if you eventually feel this is the way to go for you many CSs will be able to aid you in information/experiences in installing the new part.

                          Martial Monkey

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                          • #14
                            Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                            Ever seen latte art poured from milk that was microwaved?

                            I HAVE! At Veneziano, Zoe Delaney microwaved some milk to the correct temperature, then put it in a french press and whipped it up....transfered the milk in to a pouring pitcher and poured latte art for me.....AMAZING!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Microwaved v frothed milk

                              Sounds pretty impressive wushoes, just goes to show you can get latte art quality milk stretching using a hand beaten method.

                              It seems we have found a new Coffee Snobs party trick

                              Martial Monkey

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