Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Stop it you are killing me
I draw analogies to our espresso machines
Boiler technology is over one hundred years old
We use & recommend lever machines over super automatic
Why is that
You can make up your own mind
KK
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Collapse
X
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Love it :-*Originally posted by 38283F2E2E68696A626D695A0 link=1253447458/38#38 date=1254204666Easy solution to the sound thing... go completely acoustic (especially vocals) and then start to play with the anomalies of the performance space. In this country, our major Concert Halls and Theatres are largely dead and very hard work for orchestral, opera, oratorio, dramatic theatre etc. Every musical experience you have will be coloured not just by the equipment you audition it with, but by your mood, surrounds, physical environment la la la etc... This experience is completely subjective and defies rights and wrongs, just shades of colour and masses of opinion. So with all of this rhetoric and evidence of subjective consumers and producers of music, how the hell did Spice Girls happen? Because with all of our learned experience and thoughtful consideration of sound as an artform, the massed consumerist market demanded something to entertain their teenage daughters and keep them out of their hair! Next step... include the sons and you have a bloody good reason for the iPods success.
We who argue over fidelity of temperature stability at group head to produce nuances of flavours that please our individual palates should know better than to expect personally pleasing auditory resonance (not sound) from a mass marketed and produced musical reproducer.
Now... dont get me started on Andre Rieu...
Want to come and use some of my Gramophones.. Ya will need to bring ya own needles as have not got too many left.. Also pillows to stuff in the frame to mod teh sound to your liking and a big 3 wheeled trolley and you have portable :-)
About a 1000 78s for you to amuse ya self on :-X
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Guest repliedRe: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Easy solution to the sound thing... go completely acoustic (especially vocals) and then start to play with the anomalies of the performance space. In this country, our major Concert Halls and Theatres are largely dead and very hard work for orchestral, opera, oratorio, dramatic theatre etc. Every musical experience you have will be coloured not just by the equipment you audition it with, but by your mood, surrounds, physical environment la la la etc... This experience is completely subjective and defies rights and wrongs, just shades of colour and masses of opinion. So with all of this rhetoric and evidence of subjective consumers and producers of music, how the hell did Spice Girls happen? Because with all of our learned experience and thoughtful consideration of sound as an artform, the massed consumerist market demanded something to entertain their teenage daughters and keep them out of their hair! Next step... include the sons and you have a bloody good reason for the iPods success.
We who argue over fidelity of temperature stability at group head to produce nuances of flavours that please our individual palates should know better than to expect personally pleasing auditory resonance (not sound) from a mass marketed and produced musical reproducer.
Now... dont get me started on Andre Rieu...
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
I like your response and open focus... Yep, the issue of Like Vs Like is not always so straight forward as most of us have our own biases..Originally posted by 7F7C6E6E6A7C641D0 link=1253447458/35#35 date=1254198019About the valve amp/vinyl being "better" than CD/Solid state.Originally posted by 6C434A485F604C434C4A48404843592D0 link=1253447458/33#33 date=1254184333As to what section / comment ? ( I also appreciate your up front question... Rather than taking offence as it was not meant as such, but could be tasked as such)Originally posted by 4B485A5A5E4850290 link=1253447458/32#32 date=1254178988AM are you taking the piss or are you serious? :-?
I dont get how anyone with an electronics background and or a general understanding of how stuff works/is made (which you have previously displayed) could make a statement like that.
When I am referring to "better" I mean high fidelity. Not "sounds better" or should I say sounds "nicer".
I am yet to hear a valve amp that doesnt colour the sound. Yet to hear a vinyl that doesnt colour the sound.
This isnt to say that all solid state amps are better than all valve amps. Or to say that SS amps don’t colour the sound. Obviously one of the reasons for a solid state is cost. If this is a primary driving factor in manufacturing of it then quality and sound quality could suffer.
No to mention a lot of recordings just suck.
Maybe you are right, maybe I am emotional about it. Playing an instrument you have the sound of that instrument in your head. Play in a band and you know what certain instruments sound like. Playing a bass you hear how the drummer hits the cymbal, whether he hits it hard/soft, strikes through, strikes sideways then how that is played against the snare, whether hit hard/soft/rimshot/middle/edge how that is played against the bass drum, how the guitarist is hitting the strings, the singer hitting their notes etc will determine how I play and create a bass line. Even the room will change the way I play. This makes one very aware of what certain instruments should sound like.
Then I hear someone rabbit on about their super expensive valve amp, its a class A, the valve is biased in this certain way, blah, blah. Turns it on, wait for the warm up, start playing. What comes out sounds wrong. Muddy, soft, the bottom is flabby, the high end isnt there. More important is that it sounds wrong. Not just that it is has stuff added. A voice, trumpet, drums and especially strings are just wrong. I find this really offensive to my ear. I guess the best way to describe it is if I said that I bought some Esmeralda beans, roasted them to perfection, claimed I put them through a Robur then a La Mazocco, then proceeded to hand you a cup of Caro. To me that would be an equivalent. The Caro "might" be nice but it isn’t a better coffee.
This makes me angry. Probably makes me find evidence or say things to back up that emotion.
Same when Apple doesn’t allow you to transfer files off an iPod without hacking. This makes me angry. How dare they? They are MY files. Therefore I would make statements like “iPods are crap” or “iPods and iPhones... Great marketing... BETA Vs VHS
Lets just hope the better product wins out this time... And not the hype..”
One of many things we would agree on.
Which colour what we see and hear or believe we should be seeing / hearing
Same as coffee, home roasting, cars, partners and bikes etc etc... 8-)
But as a working tool the iPhone / iPod is crippled and over rated.....
In fact, I am not too sure what it has over any of the opposition in functionality; other than min functionality unless excessive apps are installed ($$$) and or jailbroken...
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
I find that what colours the sound more is the Phono Cartridge & stylusOriginally posted by 4645575753455D240 link=1253447458/35#35 date=1254198019I am yet to hear a valve amp that doesnt colour the sound. Yet to hear a vinyl that doesnt colour the sound.
This isnt to say that all solid state amps are better than all valve amps. Or to say that SS amps don’t colour the sound. Obviously one of the reasons for a solid state is cost. If this is a primary driving factor in manufacturing of it then quality and sound quality could suffer.
As I mentioned above only highly sensitive speakers are suitable for Tube Amps
I like both Vinyl & CD I also have Tube & Solid state amps
KK
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
About the valve amp/vinyl being "better" than CD/Solid state.Originally posted by 6C434A485F604C434C4A48404843592D0 link=1253447458/33#33 date=1254184333As to what section / comment ? ( I also appreciate your up front question... Rather than taking offence as it was not meant as such, but could be tasked as such)Originally posted by 4B485A5A5E4850290 link=1253447458/32#32 date=1254178988AM are you taking the piss or are you serious? :-?
I dont get how anyone with an electronics background and or a general understanding of how stuff works/is made (which you have previously displayed) could make a statement like that.
When I am referring to "better" I mean high fidelity. Not "sounds better" or should I say sounds "nicer".
I am yet to hear a valve amp that doesnt colour the sound. Yet to hear a vinyl that doesnt colour the sound.
This isnt to say that all solid state amps are better than all valve amps. Or to say that SS amps don’t colour the sound. Obviously one of the reasons for a solid state is cost. If this is a primary driving factor in manufacturing of it then quality and sound quality could suffer.
No to mention a lot of recordings just suck.
Maybe you are right, maybe I am emotional about it. Playing an instrument you have the sound of that instrument in your head. Play in a band and you know what certain instruments sound like. Playing a bass you hear how the drummer hits the cymbal, whether he hits it hard/soft, strikes through, strikes sideways then how that is played against the snare, whether hit hard/soft/rimshot/middle/edge how that is played against the bass drum, how the guitarist is hitting the strings, the singer hitting their notes etc will determine how I play and create a bass line. Even the room will change the way I play. This makes one very aware of what certain instruments should sound like.
Then I hear someone rabbit on about their super expensive valve amp, its a class A, the valve is biased in this certain way, blah, blah. Turns it on, wait for the warm up, start playing. What comes out sounds wrong. Muddy, soft, the bottom is flabby, the high end isnt there. More important is that it sounds wrong. Not just that it is has stuff added. A voice, trumpet, drums and especially strings are just wrong. I find this really offensive to my ear. I guess the best way to describe it is if I said that I bought some Esmeralda beans, roasted them to perfection, claimed I put them through a Robur then a La Mazocco, then proceeded to hand you a cup of Caro. To me that would be an equivalent. The Caro "might" be nice but it isn’t a better coffee.
This makes me angry. Probably makes me find evidence or say things to back up that emotion.
Same when Apple doesn’t allow you to transfer files off an iPod without hacking. This makes me angry. How dare they? They are MY files. Therefore I would make statements like “iPods are crap” or “iPods and iPhones... Great marketing... BETA Vs VHS
Lets just hope the better product wins out this time... And not the hype..”
One of many things we would agree on.
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
whats better than Ipod?
all / some / most / ??? of all your music in one device, take it anywhere (well nearly), make great play lists of your music, never have t worry about CDs etc.
i want them to combine something like a 100 gig iphone and a PSP
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
As to what section / comment ? ( I also appreciate your up front question... Rather than taking offence as it was not meant as such, but could be tasked as such)Originally posted by 4B485A5A5E4850290 link=1253447458/32#32 date=1254178988AM are you taking the piss or are you serious? :-?
I guess a Bit of both... But not directed at any one in particular... They are generalised comments biased on my extensive experience in Electronics / Coms / Health and Band support etc..
I just have an issues with some who might promote urban myths... At the expense of TRUTH.
As to concerts - Well the truth can be stranger than any fiction and I will leave it at that...
One of the houses we worked on was actually the speaker box and while it was some years ago... It made all the Sound / Speaker and Audio book and mags of the time.. Costs lots of $$$ and while the performance was impressive... The owner was over the top... But infact could not hear that well.... It was the physical vibrations and air movement that assisted and also allowed his sensors, to be tricked into thinking he was hearing notes and frequencies..
First cut vinals... Many think they have heard, but most have not...
Performance of teh human ear... Common knowledge and if you want to get into the finer details of how the brain deals with the sound waves and what is behind the cochlear implant and other brain implants etc etc.. The that is for further discussions out side of the forums.. Have work with a few involved and further research being done right now as the next step; But it is for Sight... Interesting work..... And much is still a little hush hush..
At the end of teh day... Many read with their emotions rather than looking at the facts..
On that note: 3 interesting comments that are relevant in many things today; but take another look and note the dates...
There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts. - Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
If the people who make the decisions are the people who will also bear the consequences of those decisions, perhaps better decisions will result. - John Abrams
A little inaccuracy sometimes saves a ton of explanation. - Saki/Hector Hugh Munro (1870 - 1916)
And is that last one; not 100% true.. But then, the 1% who need the detail get involved and it goes to sh!t..
Bugger.... Back OT.
iPods and iPhones... Great marketing... BETA Vs VHS
Lets just hope the better product wins out this time... And not the hype..
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
AM are you taking the piss or are you serious? :-?
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
I hate it when they say these speakers a rated at 1000w and are the best of the best (cr!p)Originally posted by 48676E6C7B446867686E6C646C677D090 link=1253447458/28#28 date=1254133786Drinking buddies and the local WOW sales person... But not the equipment.... !!!! But they still try raving about their sound systems etc..
Its the sensitivity of the speaker that counts and gives it clarity allowing one to hear everything that was mixed in the CD/Record
Mixed badly and you will regret putting it on to play
Full range speakers like Lowther with sensitivity of over 100 db is best for tube amps
My Lowthers are rated @ 106db in the current cabinets
The Lowthers (7 of them) are rated at 100w max but will be quite happy with 1/2 to 1w
I built them as a 7.1 surround sound for the movies
And I use the 2 channel Tube amp for music Vinyl on the Garrard 404 Turntable
(AM I am going to make a new plinth with that rubberised cork)
The Amp was built for me a tweaker design all silver wire & connections and it can use 3 different tubes for different styles of music
I believe speakers need to be 92db to be classed as Hi-Fi speakers
KK
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Ya.. Have to agree... One with out the other, is a waste.............Originally posted by 24342332327475767E7175460 link=1253447458/29#29 date=1254139146Guys.... For heavens sake just go out to the concert hall , or the club or the arena and be a part of the action. Music is an artistic and aesthetic medium for comunication that is as tactile and real as the vibrations that carry it. Be a part of the real experience because my stereo is better than all of yas! ;D
But need coffee first... Nothing like falling asleep during Rodger Waterss tour last year.. What pink Pig... Who spilt water on my seat ?.. Oops, cheep Incontinence Panties and those blue pills ant what I thought they were.....
Age is a bugger... But guess what.... I know it; Your yet to experience it.
8-)
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Guest repliedRe: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Guys.... For heavens sake just go out to the concert hall , or the club or the arena and be a part of the action. Music is an artistic and aesthetic medium for comunication that is as tactile and real as the vibrations that carry it. Be a part of the real experience because my stereo is better than all of yas! ;D
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
I am an Electronics Eng and there are real ones and good ones and many that ... Well enough said...
$20K for a set of speakers.. Cheep... Try many times that for one, and have to be custom shipped from Sweden.. Also have to have the house built around the 4 of them...
Mine is bigger than your... Take a cement pill... ;D
Besides once ya over about 16 - 18 (in the old days) about 14 to day...Ya hearing is all stuffed and in particular at the higher end...
By the time I reached 30 I could no longer service Amps and coms equipment, as I could not hear the frequencies.. To day, every one has a cro... Back then we did it the hard way....
Thus ya can talk all ya want as to what ya can and cantt hear but the facts are facts. The biomedical equipment that we work on and tune; to look after patients with hearing loss etc.. Is a little sensitive to say the least and it is always a laugh; when the audiophiles come in and try to show off... And then they try to cover up... Cause they are as good as deaf and can not fool the equipment... Drinking buddies and the local WOW sales person... But not the equipment.... !!!! But they still try raving about their sound systems etc..
I am also a sound guy for a band.. So bash on all ya like.. But I cant hear ya any more...
Thats why we use test equipment and then work out where to point the sound, so that the bodies suck it up... They the punters, have a perception as to what they hear; but most of it is smoke and good sound tecs... ;D
Damn that cement pill is working all ready.. Need a Guava and custard pie - With a coffee of course ;D
:
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
I can quite readily pick the difference between a lossless digital format and any of the compressed versions on my living room system--although 320 kbps is fine for the car.
Apple Lossless is what I use routinely now inside the house, and stream my digital via an Airport to my DAC/amps/speakers.
And as much as I like the convenience and cost of the digital source and my iPhone Remote app running iTunes, vinyl is more musical and involving for me, despite having more inherent noise.
Ive heard some great valve amps, but do prefer my ME 15/850 combo for its bass performance.
Greg
- Flag
Leave a comment:
-
Re: OK Techno geeks...tell me about ipods
Sure have.Originally posted by 5B6A7D6465626964720B0 link=1253447458/25#25 date=1254126557Well, you give yourself up here bassway! Have you ever listened to good vinyl? That is, first press on a high end turntable. CDs are a million miles from this.
- Flag
Leave a comment:

Leave a comment: