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When is a flat white not a flat white?

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  • When is a flat white not a flat white?

    OK.... I like my coffee in a particular way - as most do - but why is it that when I ask for a flat white, I get froth?
    IF ITS FLAT, IT JUST DOES NOT HAVE FROTH, right? Am I such a bastard to return the coffee with instructions on how to make a PROPER flat white?
    What are the rules with this tricky one?
    How is a flat white suppose to be anyway? Am I the customer from hell?
    >
    Xandro

  • #2
    Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

    First of all, why arent you at your post?

    Im sure the majority of baristas (in the US anyhow) take your order and walk to their machine in a panic wondering how to make their milk flatter and whiter then it already is

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    • #3
      Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

      From memory, a flat white should have about 0.5cm microfoam?

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      • #4
        Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

        I go by 2mm for a flat white and 10mm for a cafe latte.

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        • #5
          Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

          At our neighborhood cafe my wife always orders a latte and I get a cappuccino. The only difference in the end product is a sprinkle of chocolate. Both have about 5mm of foam. Pure kwality.

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          • #6
            Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

            i think 3-5mm is nice. Depends on the cup though. If I made one with 5mm froth on top and the customer returned nicely it I would make it again to keep them happy.

            If they came back with "instructions on how to make a proper flat white" Id be up for an argument.

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            • #7
              Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

              Originally posted by Jim link=1215952738/0#4 date=1216014707
              At our neighborhood cafe my wife always orders a latte and I get a cappuccino. The only difference in the end product is a sprinkle of chocolate. Both have about 5mm of foam. Pure kwality.
              Thats how they learned to make them at the Leagues Club my son used to work at (super auto too).

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              • #8
                Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                flat white has 5 mm latte 10 mm. we have some that ask for flat no froth, we do our best but can only fill 3/4 as milk always slops over top, then get told coffee has to be full.
                if you tell them when you order it should be no problem, just dont expect full cream milk as hilo splits quicker to remove foam.

                LE

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                • #9
                  Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                  Naw, what you do is, boil the bejeesus out of the milk in a microwave, then let it sit til it skins, then let them have it. If theyve been really nice they can have the skin too.

                  OR -- you could use *cold* milk (thatd be pretty flat!)

                  Happily I do not, nor am ever likely to, work in a cafe [smiley=evil.gif]

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                  • #10
                    Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                    I was told only today by a chef about a customer who ordered a steak well done. It was served, and the customer complained it was underdone. It went back to the kitchen, was thrown on the floor, jumped on, and then cooked some more. The customer then thought it was great.

                    that is why I would never return a meal, or a coffee.

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                    • #11
                      Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                      If you want a flat white made your way...youd better just make them yourself!

                      Honestly, I think I know my trade...Ive been working as a barista for over two years and have never stopped trying to improve myself in it either.

                      However, I think that when youre churning out coffee after coffee...sometimes your flat whites might have some foam on them. In fact, AFAIK, all my flat whites will have foam. Just the way it is when you steam milk and dont use a spoon to hold back the tide!

                      If you came into my shop and asked me to make your coffee a particular way...I would go out of my way to do so.

                      If you came into my shop and told me how to make coffee...I would probably think about stomping on your steak before serving it. Be careful how you approach your barista...

                      Please customers...be nice to us behind the machine...and Im sure well respond in kind!

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                      • #12
                        Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                        Originally posted by damian1 link=1215952738/0#9 date=1216472839
                        I was told only today by a chef about a customer who ordered a steak well done.  It was served, and the customer complained it was underdone.  It went back to the kitchen, was thrown on the floor, jumped on, and then cooked some more.  The customer then thought it was great.  

                        that is why I would never return a meal, or a coffee.
                        I recently complained about a steak.

                        The menu was a little different to the usual and emphasised the different levels of cooking.
                        You could even order your hamburger patty rare, medium or well done (weird).

                        Anyway, I felt like ordering my steak that day medium rare.
                        Sometimes Ill order blue if they have it or rare; depends on my mood.

                        When the steak arrived it was just beyond medium; it was a little uneven but mostly well done.
                        I called over the waiter and asked him if hed call it medium rare and he agreed not and offered to get me another one.

                        I declined his offer (as I can eat it the way it was and am wary of what will come back) and asked him to tell the chef it wasnt right.

                        One thing I hate is being offered something they cant deliver.
                        If you cant cook a medium rare steak dont put it on the menu.  

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                        • #13
                          Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                          Originally posted by damian1 link=1215952738/0#9 date=1216472839
                          I was told only today by a chef about a customer who ordered a steak well done.  It was served, and the customer complained it was underdone.  It went back to the kitchen, was thrown on the floor, jumped on, and then cooked some more.  The customer then thought it was great.  

                          that is why I would never return a meal, or a coffee.
                          Never returning a meal seems a bit extreme... My wifes worked in many restaurants and cafes & tells me that despite a higher than usual amount of complaining and swearing when a customer returns a dish, shes never seen food interfered with in any way. It should be safe to return something at a reputable restaurant, provided there is actually a problem with the dish and youre polite about it. If not, its probably an indication that you should eat somewhere else!

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                          • #14
                            Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                            Originally posted by m@ link=1215952738/0#12 date=1216622248
                            Originally posted by damian1 link=1215952738/0#9 date=1216472839
                            I was told only today by a chef about a customer who ordered a steak well done.  It was served, and the customer complained it was underdone.  It went back to the kitchen, was thrown on the floor, jumped on, and then cooked some more.  The customer then thought it was great.  

                            that is why I would never return a meal, or a coffee.
                            Never returning a meal seems a bit extreme... My wifes worked in many restaurants and cafes & tells me that despite a higher than usual amount of complaining and swearing when a customer returns a dish, shes never seen food interfered with in any way. It should be safe to return something at a reputable restaurant, provided there is actually a problem with the dish and youre polite about it. If not, its probably an indication that you should eat somewhere else!
                            Thing is, you never know what happens behind in the kitchen. If your steak has been stomped on, you wouldnt be able to tell anyway. You could be polite to the waiter in your complaint but that could be transmitted quite differently to the chef...

                            Back to the original topic, by the replies, therein lies the problem. some believe a flat white has 2mm froth, some 5mm, some none. Same with a cap and a latte... so what is the ABSOLUTE standard for these?

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                            • #15
                              Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?

                              Im a qualified ISO auditor and I dont know of any written standard.

                              The one for tea is ISO 3103:1980

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