Originally posted by AngerManagement link=1215952738/20#24 date=1221468946
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When is a flat white not a flat white?
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
hey pr,Originally posted by Pioneer Roaster link=1215952738/0#19 date=1216712917I have had a few customers who complained about their coffee not being boiling hot. After remaking it with super heated cup and max of 67 degree milk if they still said it was not hot enough I send them next door. I would instantly fire any staff member I caught "tampering" with a coffee or meal.
its funny - theres a guy who sent in one of his employees for a few weeks to get his "really really hot" caffe latte, each time this poor empoyee came back saying that his boss was pissed off and that it needed to be hotter. finally the hot-requester comes in and says that it hasnt been hot enough. so we heated the milk in front of him while explaining quite politely how we were killing each molecule of flavour
he was happy
we served the hottest coffee known to the Big V (probably)
and he comes back occasionally and we know what he wants
dont send these guys away - we need a good laugh
cmon, we love these guys dont we? :
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Dunno, but from your post here (and language), Id go for the second ;DOriginally posted by TK421 link=1215952738/0#0 date=1215952738OK.... I like my coffee in a particular way - as most do - but why is it that when I ask for a flat white, I get froth?
IF ITS FLAT, IT JUST DOES NOT HAVE FROTH, right? Am I such a * to return the coffee with instructions on how to make a PROPER flat white?
What are the rules with this tricky one?
How is a flat white suppose to be anyway? Am I the customer from hell?
>
Xandro
Trolling aside, a flat white is not a long black with milk/cafe au lait/long black with hot milk/short black with hot milk. Its an espresso with slightly stretched milk. So you should expect chromy, silky microfoam (or froth as you call it), or an attempt at it. If you want a coffee made in a non-menu way, you should ask the barista first imo. Personally, Id preface it with "Sorry to be a pain..." and mean it, because you just made the baristas day a bit harder!
Not sure if youll ever read this though, doesnt look like you came back after :P
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Actually that doesnt sound half bad -Ill have to try it!
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Well you learn something every dayThe shell servo restaurants called it made on milk with a bit of a huff about you being a snob if you called it flat white. Not many cafes had espresso machines outside Melbourne. If there was an espresso machine people ordered flat white to make sure they werent ripped of by getting half the cup filled with foam instead of milk.
When I was a pup mum put Turkish coffee to the hot milk and poured it over cut bread so we could eat something as well
Mums are smart
KK
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
When I was growing up flat white was the fancy cafe name for what dad made on Sunday mornings. Heat the milk on the stove without boiling it over beacuse you put a lump of metal called a milk saver in the bottom of the saucepan. A teaspoon of instant in the cup and pour on the hot milk.
If you were lucky you would get drip filter coffee instead of instant and the microwave just made it all cleaner.
The shell servo restaurants called it made on milk with a bit of a huff about you being a snob if you called it flat white. Not many cafes had espresso machines outside Melbourne. If there was an espresso machine people ordered flat white to make sure they werent ripped of by getting half the cup filled with foam instead of milk.
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
I saw a horrible thing at lunchtime today. My local bakery 1 litre jug with milkshake sized bubbles coming to the top, no thermometer (no hand underneath) being poured over coffee (wont even call it espresso) made from preground beans spooned into the portafilter then tapped (not tamped) before being exterminated into cold cups foam held back with a spoon to make a flat white
Really nice pies and bread BUT I would never drink their coffee!!!
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
I would not be so much worried about the 2-10mm of foam or no foam, at the end of the day i am more worried about the quality of the coffee shot itself as this is, in my opinion, the most important factor.
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
I have had a flat white turn up made with instunt and scalded milk
I think there Idea of a Barista was any 16 year old they could pay peanuts to.
Personally if I order a flat white and get a latteish version I dont mind if it tastes good
If I get a Capp instead then I wold ask for a new one politley, same as if I get a cold one.
No one is going to improve or bother to take care if they dont get a gentle reminder of a bad brew.
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Some one microwave my flat white, and I am out of there quicker than you can reach for the key on the till.Originally posted by Intellidepth link=1215952738/20#23 date=1221441143Hi TK421.
If you want a zero-foam flat-white youll need ask for your milk to be microwaved. Steaming (and the inevitable fine layer of microfoam) allows for a distinct increase in sweetness, nicer microscopic texture and consistent milk flavour throughout the flat-white. The fine layer of microfoam that rises to the top increases heat retention in your cup.
Personally, I am far fussier about the espresso extraction and freshness of beans than milk at cafes. Unless the milk gets scalded of course! Or if the steam wand looks like it hasnt been cleaned...
Sorry... but I have seen many a reasonable espresso / pour get killed by the incorrect management of milk...
Give me the full package or not at a ll... A job half done is not worth considering.
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Hi TK421.
If you want a zero-foam flat-white youll need ask for your milk to be microwaved. Steaming (and the inevitable fine layer of microfoam) allows for a distinct increase in sweetness, nicer microscopic texture and consistent milk flavour throughout the flat-white. The fine layer of microfoam that rises to the top increases heat retention in your cup.
Personally, I am far fussier about the espresso extraction and freshness of beans than milk at cafes. Unless the milk gets scalded of course! Or if the steam wand looks like it hasnt been cleaned...
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
Before the term barista was widely used , if I ordered a flat white it usually came without foam. But Id say times have changed. And Im getting long in the tooth
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
and it looks like in NZ flat white is more of a cross of Australian flat white and a latte (that is at least 4-5mm of foam on top, often more, but not quite 12mm of a latte ;-)Originally posted by scoota gal link=1215952738/0#16 date=1216635469Okay...according to the baristas bible...
The industry standard that is being taught in the Prepare and Serve Coffee unit is that the Flat White is "an espresso topped with silky smooth textured milk" and has "up to 5mm of foam".
...
At least theres not much debate on how much foam they should have!
I guess the only way to get the coffee you want is either go to the cafe where you know what they serve and you like it or make it yourself...
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
True, you have to trust the kitchen staff - but this is true whether you send food back or not. You trust that the chefs wash their hands after they go to the toilet, refrigerate food that needs to be refrigerated and dont let roaches live under the fridge. Id never send food back at a restaurant I didnt trust, becuase I wouldnt be eating there in the first placeOriginally posted by NewToEspresso link=1215952738/0#13 date=1216623401Thing is, you never know what happens behind in the kitchen. If your steak has been stomped on, you wouldnt be able to tell anyway. You could be polite to the waiter in your complaint but that could be transmitted quite differently to the chef...
As I said, in over a decade of working in many cafes and restaurants my wife has never seen or heard of food being interfered with. Though a chef was fired for throwing a knife at a waiter at one restaurant...
But yeah, OT...
Ive been served flat whites with anywhere from 1mm to 1.5cm of foam; at home I tend to make them with about 2-4mm.
There seems to be a pervasive belief in the more food-oriented cafes that the correct way to make a flat white is to boil the milk until its hot water underneath and meringue on top, then scrape off the foam. Instead of a few mm of foam, a custard-like skin slowly forms on top...
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Re: When is a flat white not a flat white?
That is disgusting!!! I have worked in a number of cafes and restuarants and have never seen this happen, not that I believe it doesnt. It is all about proffesionalism, if the "chef" had a problem cooking a steak well done than they should have conveyed this to the customer. I have had a few customers who complained about their coffee not being boiling hot. After remaking it with super heated cup and max of 67 degree milk if they still said it was not hot enough I send them next door. I would instantly fire any staff member I caught "tampering" with a coffee or meal.Originally posted by damian1 link=1215952738/0#9 date=1216472839I was told only today by a chef about a customer who ordered a steak well done. It was served, and the customer complained it was underdone. It went back to the kitchen, was thrown on the floor, jumped on, and then cooked some more. The customer then thought it was great.
that is why I would never return a meal, or a coffee.
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