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  • Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

    Originally posted by 15202D2A1E022E27272424410 link=1295714321/20#20 date=1296712489
    The retail margin on their $7k machine would have any reseller in trouble with a single warranty claim.
    Out if interest, is the cost of a warranty claim not passed back to the importer by the re-seller?

  • #2
    Re: GS3 has arrived

    Originally posted by 323E373A3A335F0 link=1295714321/21#21 date=1296726648
    Out if interest, is the cost of a warranty claim not passed back to the importer by the re-seller?  
    Importers cover the cost of parts, but not associated labour nor return shipping costs. Of 5 machines purchased, we received one which was substantially bent. Another sent to a client in rural SA was a complete write-off. Fortunately, I insisted that Allpress ship that one or we would have had to wear a replacement as well.

    Theyre a great machine, but I still think theyre fragile and overpriced.

    @Clint- Its interesting to note that the machine is finally shipping with a better looking drip tray. Mines pretty rough...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: GS3 has arrived

      Originally posted by 1025282F1B072B22222121440 link=1295714321/23#23 date=1296728445
      Originally posted by 323E373A3A335F0 link=1295714321/21#21 date=1296726648
      Out if interest, is the cost of a warranty claim not passed back to the importer by the re-seller?  
      Importers cover the cost of parts, but not associated labour nor return shipping costs.
      Interestingly that has changed with the new consumer laws that came into effect on the 1st of Jan.

      The ACCC now oversee a new consumer act that sees consumers enjoy much more protection and obligations on importers/manufacturers and suppliers increased.

      Businesses need to research and get up to speed on the new laws, have a look on the web where there is plenty of info.

      As an example an importer will now be liable for shipping costs associated with a warranty repair where those costs are "significant" (eg coffee machine.) Labour costs would also be recoverable from the importer.

      Also consumer gaurantee will mean consumers have a much longer warranty that the standard 12 month one on goods that are expensive and where the consumer has a reasonable expectation of a significantly longer life.

      I would expect that a $7K coffee machine would imply a consumer could expect the item to last at least 5 years and therefore any manufacturing faults would be repairable under the consumer gaurantee. /Offtopic!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: GS3 has arrived

        Originally posted by 45434E574F435B220 link=1295714321/25#25 date=1296736373
        As an example an importer will now be liable for shipping costs associated with a warranty repair where those costs are "significant" (eg coffee machine.) Labour costs would also be recoverable from the importer.

        Also consumer guarantee will mean consumers have a much longer warranty that the standard 12 month one on goods that are expensive and where the consumer has a reasonable expectation of a significantly longer life.
        One would expect that goodwill repairs will also be a thing of the past in this scenario. An example might be a defective pressurestat which shows signs of scale which may have contributed towards the problem. This might apply to pumps, solenoids etc as well. It would certainly apply to any wear component such as an O-ring. Warranty providers will have no option other than to look much more closely at how the item has been used.

        People in remote areas may well find it impossible to to have a machine shipped to them as the sales outlet may consider the sale to be too risky. Bring on the insurers :

        Retail prices and magins will need to be adjusted to cover warranty risk and ultimately, we all pay.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: GS3 has arrived

          Originally posted by 3234392038342C550 link=1295714321/25#25 date=1296736373
          Also consumer gaurantee will mean consumers have a much longer warranty that the standard 12 month one on goods that are expensive and where the consumer has a reasonable expectation of a significantly longer life.
          There is already a Statutory Warranty that does just this.
          Ill have to have a read; maybe the changes remove some subjectivity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: GS3 has arrived

            Originally posted by 277860767D767A7373707078747B150 link=1295714321/26#26 date=1296769163
            Warranty providers will have no option other than to look much more closely at how the item has been used.
            Quite possibly, especially after the initial 12 months. They will have to be careful about declining to repair faulty items though, the penalties for breaches are quite tough.

            People in remote areas may well find it impossible to to have a machine shipped to them as the sales outlet may consider the sale to be too risky. Bring on the insurers  
            Shouldnt have that effect, the sales outlet can recover the costs from the supplier/manufacturer.

            What I suspect we will see is longer warranties provided to avoid these issues, I wouldnt be surprised to see 3 yr warranties as a standard on many more expensive home electronic items as an example.

            Originally posted by 0935283339382F3A32395D0 link=1295714321/27#27 date=1296775292
            There is already a Statutory Warranty that does just this.
            Ill have to have a read; maybe the changes remove some subjectivity.  
            Statutory Warranties under the State Fair Trading Laws no longer exist, they have been superseced by the new legislation under the federal ACCC.

            EDIT - I have started a thread about the Australian Consumer Law as its off topic here and restricted to those happening to be reading this thread, http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1296845379/0

            Comment


            • #7
              Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

              The new Australian Consumer Law to be administered by the ACCC, replaces all previous Consumer Protection Legislation, usually covered by State Fair Trading Acts. It came into effect on the 1st of January.

              The new system should provide national uniformity and some increased protection for consumers. It also has important ramifications for suppliers and retailers and they should make themselves familiar with the law and its penalties for breaches.

              More info in the press release, http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/965484

              Details for business - http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.../itemId/956980

              and more detail for consumers & business,
              http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/conten...x?doc=home.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                I applaud the intent to provide blanket rights and responsibilities for all Australians.

                I do however think it is going to be a very fuzzy process trying to sort out claims. Unless everyone is wearing a microphone and the sale process recorded, I imagine there will be a lot of, "he said, she said" disputes, which apparently are acceptable criteria for consideration.

                In regard to the idea of a reasonable life expectancy, the examples given seem to suggest that the basis for determination is primarily cost. So we can expect arguments like, a $5k coffee machine should have half the life expectancy of a $10k machine, but twice that of a $2.5k machine.

                Persinally, Id rather have a guarantee that is in black and white.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                  Agreed.

                  A.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                    Originally posted by 6A4B4040475D2E0 link=1296845379/1#1 date=1296853155
                    Persinally, Id rather have a guarantee that is in black and white.
                    Ditto Dennis...........no grey areas its either covered or it isnt.

                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                      This is a really interesting time for Australian retail.

                      On one hand we have consumers demanding cheaper prices and yet on the other, they will also be insisting on long warranty on these items- so as to cover them when they break stuff or it fails due to abuse. Makes me think Id have to be entitled to a 15-20 year warranty on my car?  :-? Well be stating that our machines are good for 12 months :

                      I suspect that importers are going to need to incorporate higher warranty provisions into their goods for sale and that youll see this in fewer discounts and/or escalation in the price of items with slim margins.

                      Bottom line is that the funds have to come from somewhere. Im betting that the exodus to internationally sourced produce will intensify because as we know, most Aussies are prepared to do whatever it takes to save a few bucks- including passing up on service and warranty.

                      Please save me from the stupids who legislate this rubbish.

                      Chris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                        Originally posted by 5B7A7171766C1F0 link=1296845379/1#1 date=1296853155
                        I applaud the intent to provide blanket rights and responsibilities for all Australians.

                        I do however think it is going to be a very fuzzy process trying to sort out claims.  Unless everyone is wearing a microphone and the sale process recorded, I imagine there will be a lot of, "he said, she said" disputes, which apparently are acceptable criteria for consideration.
                        [hr]
                        In regard to the idea of a reasonable life expectancy, the examples given seem to suggest that the basis for determination is primarily cost.  So we can expect arguments like, a $5k coffee machine should have half the life expectancy of a $10k machine, but twice that of a $2.5k machine.

                        Persinally, Id rather have a guarantee that is in black and white.
                        Life expectancy is not necessarily related to cost. A few years ago I bought a plasma tv. At the time, it had a retail of $4000. Similar tvs now would be cost to $1000, but would not be expected to last correspondingly less time.
                        A company I used to work for routinely sold computers for $250,000+ and they could be expected to require repairs within a year or so.
                        The complexity of the item, and consumers reasonable expectations play a huge role.
                        No matter how much either party tries to put everything in black and white terms, there will always be room for argument - not just over shares of grey, but over what is fair and reasonable.

                        If I bought a coffee machine that was marketed as a "professional series", I would have different expectations to one marketed as a domestic coffee machine, regardless of relative price points.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                          Originally posted by 497C7176425E727B7B78781D0 link=1296845379/10#10 date=1296855541
                          Please save me from the stupids who legislate this rubbish.
                          Hear hear. Ive seen this happen in the computer industry, and what happens is the decent companies try to follow the law, then cant provide the goods at a cheap enough price. "Wholesale" style operators start up, flogging boxes at 5% or less margin, and tell the customers where to go if they want warranty (ie tell them to go back to the distributor/manufacturer). What then happens, is those places get sued/fined by ACCC, but they have so much turnover by that stage, they just dont care.

                          If it does happen to affect their bottom line, they fold, and reopen somewhere else.

                          The bottom line is, there is always a customer who wants it cheaper, and there is always a business willing to sell it cheaper, even if it means breaking the law or going bankrupt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                            Originally posted by 4E7B76714559757C7C7F7F1A0 link=1296845379/10#10 date=1296855541
                            Makes me think Id have to be entitled to a 15-20 year warranty on my car?
                            Ive had a couple of car that made it to that age without problems and then again I had one where the frame of the driver side seat broke and the manufacturer basically told me to piss off because it was outside the 12 month warranty.
                            I was young and less informed on consumer laws in those days so I ended up giving up after a few attempts.
                            But lets remember that sometimes the consumer does need protection from the occasional shonky manufacturer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                              Originally posted by 565E50585A40405C5058330 link=1296845379/11#11 date=1296858868
                              reasonable expectations play a huge role.
                              No matter how much either party tries to put everything in black and white terms, there will always be room for argument
                              "Reasonable expectations" and the lack of black and white terms are what will cause the arguments!

                              "Example
                              A consumer purchases a television which won’t turn on six months after purchase. The television is not of acceptable quality as a reasonable consumer would expect a television to last much longer than six months.
                              If the television broke down after 10 years it is much more likely that the television is of acceptable quality and the consumer would not be entitled to a remedy under the consumer guarantee"

                              I love the way they have avoided stating what a "reasonable consumer" might consider an appropriate life for the tv. The example given above is from the ACCC website and the expectation that a TV last 10 years is probably aligned to what my parents would have expected.

                              Im off to buy a $100 TV from an appliance store and am going to keep my docket - for 10 years!

                              Comment

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