Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

    The subjectively applicable nature of these laws mean that the squeakiest wheel will get the most grease. With black and white at lest I can maintain my dignity while getting the service I have chosen to pay for by buying locally. Once again it is the regulations that make it more compelling to shop online or OS which isnt fair on consumers or our retailers. Well done bureaucracy; nobody wins which looks fair on paper! >

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

      Originally posted by 1D282522160A262F2F2C2C490 link=1296845379/10#10 date=1296855541

      Makes me think Id have to be entitled to a 15-20 year warranty on my car?  
      You would probably have a hard time arguing that was reasonable, but good luck if you try. The 10 year warranty on mine seemed ok (mitsi triton).

      I took a while to drill through the links to anything with real content, but the explanatory memorandum has some good info.

      Consequential damages are now included, as are products bought from businesses listing on online auction sites and even second hand goods sold "as is".

      Suppliers also now have a clear right to claim back all warranty costs from manufacturers.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

        Some of the replies demonstrate the lack of understanding by business of the old laws, let alone the new ones.

        It has always been a grey area beyond the general 12 month warranty that most suppliers provided. Under the old State based Statutory Warranty, consumers were entitled to similar protection for the reasonable life of a purchase.

        Well informed consumers have used this to get things like laptops fixed out of warranty, as it was not hard to argue that a laptop should last at least 3 years.

        What changes is the uniformity of application with a single federally administered legislation and better guidelines for business and consumers about what can be said and done regarding a consumer guarantee.

        It also provides for suppliers to be able to recover costs of warranty repairs and related costs from the importer/manufacturer/supplier which should help protect small business.

        I also think it will actually make many people think twice about purchasing offshore, the fact that more people will become aware of their consumer rights to protection against defects and shoddy manufacturing well beyond 12 months may be a persuasive argument to purchase locally.

        I am sure there will be some teething issues, but as a business owner and a consumer I see it as a very positive move, the move to national, uniform consumer protection laws was long overdue and better communication and application of consumer guarantees will be good for consumers. As a business I have a clearer responsibility to my customers and a direct recourse to recover costs incurred in fulfilling my obligations.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

          Originally posted by 27060D0D0A10630 link=1296845379/14#14 date=1296861409
          Im off to buy a $100 TV from an appliance store and am going to keep my docket - for 10 years!  
          I havent had a TV die in under 10 years.
          In fact Ive never thrown one out.
          Currently we have 1 in the garage, 1 on the back verandah, 1 in the spare bedroom, one in the main bedroom and they are all many years old.

          The newest one (in the lounge room) is almost 1 year old now and its the one Id worry will not last as long as the others.
          In fact the one on the verandah was dropped and despite the tube not sitting square now, it still works.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

            I recently retired a German Loewe Cantus which I bought in 1990.  I mentioned this to the salesman in the local Hardly Normal store where I was purchasing my new Chinese whiz bang LED thingy & he offered that I should not expect such longevity from current purchase (while trying to sell me an extended warranty - from the manufacturers twelve months to two years).  Two grand doesnt buy much these day, apparently.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

              100% agree with galumay. As a non-aussie, I have always found it hard to understand how such a small country (by population) has so many layers of government and bureaucracy. This legislation seems to be a step in the right direction.

              Some businesses have in the past (and this will no doubt continue) offered a black and white warranty that is less than consumers are entitled to. It takes a well informed and persistent consumer to stand up to such dodgy practices. Usually the business IS aware of their responsibilities, but is using this as a deliberate ploy.

              As for offshore purchasing, I noticed a reference in the memorandum to the Vienna Sales Convention which seems to cover these transactions, must find out more about that as I do buy a few things internationally and may also sell that way in the future.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                I understand that it is good for consumers and in an ideal world good for a supplier, but I know that I dont have that kind of pull with the importer of the products I sell to be able to tell them that they will now have to pay for my time on warranty repair jobs and freight.

                They will tell me to go jump!

                Sure I can then let the ACCC loose on them but that is not the basis of an ongoing working relationship with the importer.

                One of 3 things will then happen.

                1. The importer will drop me as a supplier

                2. The next shipment I order will cost $$$ because the importer will factor in my repair costs and longer warranty on the initial purchase price.

                3. Australia is such a small fish that the importer will stop sending their products here.

                And the next time there is a how come I can buy x from overseas cheaper than I can buy it here and all suppliers are rip offs, I can now point them to this thread.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                  Originally posted by 2A2C2138202C344D0 link=1296845379/17#17 date=1296879836
                  Some of the replies demonstrate the lack of understanding by business of the old laws
                  I understood them.

                  Originally posted by 2A2C2138202C344D0 link=1296845379/17#17 date=1296879836
                  It has always been a grey area beyond the general 12 month warranty that most suppliers provided.
                  And you would do well to understand that now, there is plenty of grey area within a 12 month warranty.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                    Originally posted by 15343F3F3822510 link=1296845379/7#7 date=1296853155
                    Persinally, Id rather have a guarantee that is in black and white.
                    Originally posted by 15343F3F3822510 link=1296845379/14#14 date=1296861409
                    Who me? wrote on Today at 9:34am:
                    reasonable expectations play a huge role.
                    No matter how much either party tries to put everything in black and white terms, there will always be room for argument


                    "Reasonable expectations" and the lack of black and white terms are what will cause the arguments!
                    Originally posted by 15343F3F3822510 link=1296845379/22#22 date=1296893495
                    And you would do well to understand that now, there is plenty of grey area within a 12 month warranty.
                    To restate and possibly (hopefully) clarify somewhat. Any time someone tries to make things black and white, shades of grey inevitably emerge.
                    I use argument in the sense of arguing ones case or debating, not in the sense of shouting matches - just in case anyone misunderstood. This is a good thing as reasoned argument helps progress towards mutually acceptable outcomes.

                    There may be plenty of grey areas in the new legislation but:
                    There were before.
                    It is nationally applicable.
                    Previously identified grey areas have been clarified.
                    Responsibilities of suppliers and manufacturers are better defined than before.

                    The notion of reasonableness is actually quite well defined legally (e.g. have a quick search for reasonable man doctrine).

                    Itll take some time and some test cases, but this should be a benefit for consumers and businesses and, as always, new opportunities will emerge for creative business people.

                    If anyone thinks they can write a black and white warranty document, I suggest you give it a try - it is not easy to even get close.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                      Originally posted by 777F71797B61617D7179120 link=1296845379/23#23 date=1296895852
                      If anyone thinks they can write a black and white warranty document, I suggest you give it a try - it is not easy to even get close.
                      If "x" becomes faulty within 12 months of purchase, it will be repaired at no cost to the purchaser. If "x" cannot be repaired, it will be replaced.

                      Please tell me how thats not a properly written warranty. It took me two minutes to write. It is of course a very simple warranty though I suggest the new laws create many grey areas as they fail to be clear.

                      Originally posted by 777F71797B61617D7179120 link=1296845379/23#23 date=1296895852
                      The notion of reasonableness is actually quite well defined legally (e.g. have a quick search for reasonable man doctrine).
                      Ah yes. And I would argue that in our society the only example by definition is a Judge. :

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                        Originally posted by 70515A5A5D47340 link=1296845379/24#24 date=1296898154
                        If "x" becomes faulty within 12 months of purchase, it will be repaired at no cost to the purchaser.  If "x" cannot be repaired, it will be replaced.

                        Please tell me how thats not a properly written warranty.  It took me two minutes to write.  It is of course a very simple warranty though I suggest the new laws create many grey areas as they fail to be clear.
                        You run the boiler dry on a coffee machine and burn the element. Under your warranty, this would be covered....

                        There MUST be exclusions, as stupidity cant be warranted against. It has to factor in the the product was used as intended/designed.

                        That said, I fully agree with your original post in this thread.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                          Originally posted by 565E50585A40405C5058330 link=1296845379/23#23 date=1296895852
                          The notion of  reasonableness is actually quite well defined legally (e.g. have a quick search for reasonable man doctrine).
                          At the risk of incurring wrath due to me being totally out of both my legal and contractual depth here I can see why this would be a big debate when it comes to having to deal with customers and suppliers on a day to day basis.

                          While I imagine there is a legal definition for reasonableness, and I understand there is a probably a huge gulf between legal contracts and what I would term a Service level Agreement. I would suggest that using the term reasonable to manage a customers expectations would be fraught with problems, due to everyones perceptions of what is reasonable varying a great deal. When defining an SLA, its generally recommended that if you cant measure it, then its best to exclude it, unless the term is absolutely clarified in some way and there is agreement to exactly what it means. Not sure how you would measure "reasonable", and I imagine once you get into a dispute over that, you have possibly already lost the customers loyalty, and even if you are right from a contractual/law perspective, you have not been able to manage expectations and lost their custom. (Mind you in some cases that might have been a good thing)

                          This is probably also related to the Customer Satisfaction being = Perceived Quality / Expected Quality, of which communication plays  a part.

                          Grahamk

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                            Requirements need to be measurable to avoid argument.
                            "Reasonable" appears to be a requirement of this legislation therefore it should be defined or else there will be trouble.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                              The legal system thrives on argument. Its big dollars.
                              Also, societal and legal expectations/definitions of what is reasonable change - you should see some of the original uses!

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Australian Consumer Law - NEW!

                                A reasonable man [person] is: "informed, capable, aware of the law, and fair-minded, has some foresight, plans his or her acts, and is able to get along with others."

                                Hence my reference to the Judge.


                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X